Website refuses to refund cancelled preorders paid for upfront with PayPal.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

jon81uk said:

inholms said:

born_again said:

inholms said:

The point is that there is a scam going on here supported by the very two companies that have the power to stop it. There behaviour is undermining the usefulness of internet shopping. Instead of wagging the school master finger why not ask ‘How and why are Facebook and PayPal getting away with this.  

These sites are not there to police retailers advertising.
Just the same as banks do not police retailers.
Lets face it even the consumer bodies can not even police retailers.

As a rule of thumb. If anything like this pops up on social media. Then..
A. goggle it to see if it's available direct via a website.
B. Check Amazon, as it may be cheaper.

You just don’t get it do you? This has been going on for months (same company) Thousands HAVE complained about this To Facebook and PayPal but they do nothing. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they are both complicit in this crime. 

If I put a notice in a newsagent window (I know this isn't really a thing anymore) stating I've got Calvin Klien fragrance at £5 a bottle, is the newsagent also commiting a crime by allowing the advert for fake products?

Thing is if you ran a market or boot-fair and it was full of fake goods trading standards would (eventually) do something about it, probably the same if enough people complained about an ad in the newsagent window. 

The tech companies only get away with it because they are some of the richest companies on the planet and have plenty of power to avoid tougher regulation. 

jon81uk

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

jon81uk said:

inholms said:

born_again said:

inholms said:

The point is that there is a scam going on here supported by the very two companies that have the power to stop it. There behaviour is undermining the usefulness of internet shopping. Instead of wagging the school master finger why not ask ‘How and why are Facebook and PayPal getting away with this.  

These sites are not there to police retailers advertising.
Just the same as banks do not police retailers.
Lets face it even the consumer bodies can not even police retailers.

As a rule of thumb. If anything like this pops up on social media. Then..
A. goggle it to see if it's available direct via a website.
B. Check Amazon, as it may be cheaper.

You just don’t get it do you? This has been going on for months (same company) Thousands HAVE complained about this To Facebook and PayPal but they do nothing. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they are both complicit in this crime. 

If I put a notice in a newsagent window (I know this isn't really a thing anymore) stating I've got Calvin Klien fragrance at £5 a bottle, is the newsagent also commiting a crime by allowing the advert for fake products?

Thing is if you ran a market or boot-fair and it was full of fake goods trading standards would (eventually) do something about it, probably the same if enough people complained about an ad in the newsagent window. 

The tech companies only get away with it because they are some of the richest companies on the planet and have plenty of power to avoid tougher regulation. 

But trading standards generally go after the stall holder. I wouldn’t expect the entire boot fair to get closed down unless the management were deliberately attracting those stall holders.

Also in the case of these sort of scams on Facebook trading standards probably can’t help as they are almost all not in the uk. 

Spank

inholms said:

born_again said:

inholms said:

The point is that there is a scam going on here supported by the very two companies that have the power to stop it. There behaviour is undermining the usefulness of internet shopping. Instead of wagging the school master finger why not ask ‘How and why are Facebook and PayPal getting away with this.  

These sites are not there to police retailers advertising.
Just the same as banks do not police retailers.
Lets face it even the consumer bodies can not even police retailers.

As a rule of thumb. If anything like this pops up on social media. Then..
A. goggle it to see if it's available direct via a website.
B. Check Amazon, as it may be cheaper.

You just don’t get it do you? This has been going on for months (same company) Thousands HAVE complained about this To Facebook and PayPal but they do nothing. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they are both complicit in this crime. 

If thousands have complained about them why did you buy from them?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

jon81uk said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

jon81uk said:

inholms said:

born_again said:

inholms said:

The point is that there is a scam going on here supported by the very two companies that have the power to stop it. There behaviour is undermining the usefulness of internet shopping. Instead of wagging the school master finger why not ask ‘How and why are Facebook and PayPal getting away with this.  

These sites are not there to police retailers advertising.
Just the same as banks do not police retailers.
Lets face it even the consumer bodies can not even police retailers.

As a rule of thumb. If anything like this pops up on social media. Then..
A. goggle it to see if it's available direct via a website.
B. Check Amazon, as it may be cheaper.

You just don’t get it do you? This has been going on for months (same company) Thousands HAVE complained about this To Facebook and PayPal but they do nothing. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they are both complicit in this crime. 

If I put a notice in a newsagent window (I know this isn't really a thing anymore) stating I've got Calvin Klien fragrance at £5 a bottle, is the newsagent also commiting a crime by allowing the advert for fake products?

Thing is if you ran a market or boot-fair and it was full of fake goods trading standards would (eventually) do something about it, probably the same if enough people complained about an ad in the newsagent window. 

The tech companies only get away with it because they are some of the richest companies on the planet and have plenty of power to avoid tougher regulation. 

But trading standards generally go after the stall holder. I wouldn’t expect the entire boot fair to get closed down unless the management were deliberately attracting those stall holders.

Also in the case of these sort of scams on Facebook trading standards probably can’t help as they are almost all not in the uk. 

A boot-fair with 90% rogue stalls would probably still affect less people than 0.1% of Facebook ads being for scams. 

People should take responsibility and do some quick checks to ensure the sites they buy from are legit (plus probably buy less pointless junk in the first place) but something like the revenue from confirmed rouge advertisers being donated to public bodies who tackle such crimes would be an ideal compromise. 

Takmon

Golgo13 said:

visidigi said:

Day_Of_The_Doris said:

visidigi said:

Depends on the terms of the cancellation. a Pre-order is an order, so if they say if you pay with paypal and you cancel its refunded via credit then this is not a breach of rights.

If it's a UK based website and the order was made by a consumer, then I disagree and it is more than likely a breach of rights under the Consumer Contracts regulations.
These regulations are very specific in that a consumer who cancels IAW the reg's must be refunded by the same method as they paid unless they expressly agree otherwise (a term of a website is not an agreement) and a store credit is not a refund.
If the seller in question doesn't want to pay Paypal fees, they shouldn't choose to accept payment this way in the first place.

That applies to refundable purchases. The term in effect here is that if you choose to pay by payment process X then the consequences are Y. The OP hasn't yet said if this is the only method by which they can purchase. 

The buyer is choosing to cancel the transaction, not the seller. A very important distinction in this scenario.

Just for clarity then the site offers preorder by credit/debit cards and the funds will be taken when the goods are despatched, or by PayPal where the funds are taken when you place the preorder. 

When you are preordering something that isn’t due until 2021, it’s safer (in my opinion) to pay up front when you have the funds available than to risk not having the money when the item releases. 

Personally I would never pay up front for something if I can keep the money in my account and only pay when it's ready to be sent out because as you have found out anything could happen between now and then and it always works out better if they don't yet have the money because then you are in control.
Simply put the card details as a credit card so you don't need to worry about the money being in one specific account when payment is taken and then save the money elsewhere in another account. If your unable to save money in another account without spending it then this is serious failing of you to budget and will have big negative consequences on all your finances eventually. 

Takmon

inholms said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

inholms said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

inholms said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

inholms said:

I need to share this with you. PayPal and Facebook are involved in a huge scam. I am one of thousands who have been conned. Here’s how it works. I read a ‘pop up’ add on Facebook. It’s an interesting bit of kit, in my case a high tech kitchen chopping board. $30. I paid through PayPal and two months later a crude useless wooden board arrived from China. Its happening all round the world. I complained and PayPal refunded me. However, they normally don’t as can be seen on their own blog site https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-Limitations/Fraud-Dongguan-Shunfa-Logistics-Co-Ltd/td-p/2014870 Makes interesting reading (Why are they allowing this site to run? Are they so arrogant they can’t be touched?) I have recieved other useless junk items not as advertised and they have refused a refund.
I’m convinced that as PayPal and Facebook are involved in fraud/money laundering and this need exposing. Web shopping is a wonderful thing. Why are these major players destroying peoples trust and confidence? I just don’t get it.

"Things bought off Facebook and paid for by Paypal aren't always what they seem" shocker.

Stop falling for rubbish pop-up adverts.
Stop buying things that are too good to be true to save a few quid.
Buy proper things from proper retailers using proper forms of payment and you won't have these sorts of problems.  It's not difficult.

No need to be patronising. The point is that there is a scam going on here supported by the very two companies that have the power to stop it. There behaviour is undermining the usefulness of internet shopping. Instead of wagging the school master finger why not ask ‘How and why are Facebook and PayPal getting away with this.  

My post wasn't addressed to you directly (too late for that) but to other people, to stop them falling for this nonsense.

As to how FB and PP are getting away with this, the answer is sadly that there is no shortage of people willing to respond to these pop-up adverts and buy dubious products that are for sale on a social media site, thus driving views, clicks and revenue.  You don't pay for FB so how do they make money?  As the saying goes, if you're not paying for the product, you are the product.  20 years ago people were falling for "bargains" out of the back of a transit van from a bloke with a loudhailer on the high street.  This is simply the web-based equivalent. 

Aylesbury_Duck said:

inholms said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

inholms said:

I need to share this with you. PayPal and Facebook are involved in a huge scam. I am one of thousands who have been conned. Here’s how it works. I read a ‘pop up’ add on Facebook. It’s an interesting bit of kit, in my case a high tech kitchen chopping board. $30. I paid through PayPal and two months later a crude useless wooden board arrived from China. Its happening all round the world. I complained and PayPal refunded me. However, they normally don’t as can be seen on their own blog site https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-Limitations/Fraud-Dongguan-Shunfa-Logistics-Co-Ltd/td-p/2014870 Makes interesting reading (Why are they allowing this site to run? Are they so arrogant they can’t be touched?) I have recieved other useless junk items not as advertised and they have refused a refund.
I’m convinced that as PayPal and Facebook are involved in fraud/money laundering and this need exposing. Web shopping is a wonderful thing. Why are these major players destroying peoples trust and confidence? I just don’t get it.

"Things bought off Facebook and paid for by Paypal aren't always what they seem" shocker.

Stop falling for rubbish pop-up adverts.
Stop buying things that are too good to be true to save a few quid.
Buy proper things from proper retailers using proper forms of payment and you won't have these sorts of problems.  It's not difficult.

No need to be patronising. The point is that there is a scam going on here supported by the very two companies that have the power to stop it. There behaviour is undermining the usefulness of internet shopping. Instead of wagging the school master finger why not ask ‘How and why are Facebook and PayPal getting away with this.  

My post wasn't addressed to you directly (too late for that) but to other people, to stop them falling for this nonsense.

As to how FB and PP are getting away with this, the answer is sadly that there is no shortage of people willing to respond to these pop-up adverts and buy dubious products that are for sale on a social media site, thus driving views, clicks and revenue.  You don't pay for FB so how do they make money?  As the saying goes, if you're not paying for the product, you are the product.  20 years ago people were falling for "bargains" out of the back of a transit van from a bloke with a loudhailer on the high street.  This is simply the web-based equivalent. 

Facebook ARE getting revenue from the scamers. In the face of so many people saying they have been ripped off, why is Facebook allowing these crooks to advertise on their site? This behaviour is destroying what could be a wonderful way of trading. 

There's your answer.  Have you reported the activity to Facebook?  What did they say?

There already is a wonderful way of trading online.  This sort of activity doesn't destroy it, it just inevitably sits alongside it just as back-of-van sellers sit alongside proper shops.  As long as there's a market, they will exist.

You just don’t get it do you? This has been going on for months (same company) Thousands HAVE complained about this To Facebook and PayPal but they do nothing. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they are both complicit in this crime. 

What product is it and what company is it and how you do you know there have been thousands of complaints? have you complained?

If you thought it was genuine enough to actually order and pay for something then how are Facebook supposed to know it isn't just by looking at it?.