Defending a claim for train station free car park

Coupon-mad

yellowdots said:

There is a box "Address for sending documents and payments" which is blank, but no mention anywhere else on the claim form of who their solicitors are.

So they are not using one, then.  Clearly if Jake Burgess signed the claim form, it's VCS.  You should have posted or emailed to them.

yellowdots

A brief summary of what happened this morning:

It was a dispute resolution hearing and lasted about 50 minutes.  The Judge commented I had done a good job with my witness statement, it was set out well and congratulated me.  So thanks to everyone in the forum where I have read and taken note of suggested ways to lay out and which exhibits to include.  This also helped to calm my nerves a lot.  I also apologised for not making sure my witness statement was sent to VCS within the time specified.  Judge had received it twice so commented there must have been a techical error.

Judge made it clear this hearing was without prejudice.

Inititally Judge commented on VCS's weaknesses:

Re Beavis case - there is no such legitimate interest here as the parking is free, therefore it is a penalty and is unenforceable (but I did make a mental note towards the end of the hearing that this was not mentioned again, not even when my strengths were being commented on).

From the claimants point of view there were 3 issues against them: 1) the signs being badly located and badly lit for dark mornings; 2) the £60 contractual charge which was considered an inflated charge and could be considered abuse (VCS agent said it is a debt recovery charge); 3) on the issue of legitimate interest Judge felt this was in the Defendant's favour (I actually am unsure what the detail of this is but will be able to read the write up when it arrives).

In VCS's favour: 1) terms to park in a designated bay, but Judge went on to mention it could be seen from my photo's that my car was not interfering with other bays and was within the lines, but as the car in front was parked incorrectly I could not go further forward and hence back wheels were across the line at the back. Again a mention of legitimate interest.

The VCS agent mentioned a few times that this is a very standard case and any reasonable person would ensure that they parked in the bay correctly.  He also mentioned that the £60 issue has since been successfully appealed in July.  Also that I'd had numerous opportunities to appeal.

Judge summarised the weaknesses with regard to my defence: 1) that I'd had the opportunity to get out of the car and go over to the sign to read it properly (when I had the chance to speak I pointed out there were double yellow lines on both sides along the entrance/approach to car park and cars would also be queuing behind); 2) the terms did say to park in designated bays - although here Judge did say the sign shows an image of an X going through the incorrect way to park e.g. going across either line along the side of the car and in my case it was the rear wheels and I was parked correctly between the other lines at the side; 3) I had had opportunities to appeal and hadn't.

Judge felt the strongest part of the case for me would be the £60 extra being added on (this leads me to possibly believe the Judge thought that the £100 charge is fine then?).

I was then given an opportunity to make an offer of what I would be prepared to pay in order to end the process today.  I offered a maximum of £20 just to end the process and not because I felt I had done anything wrong on a free car park for train commuters.  The VCS agent said this would not be anywhere near enough and their minimum would be in the region of £100 plus.

I confirmed I was not prepared to pay this amount.

I asked Judge whether my short video clip had been included as no mention had been made of it.  Judge had seen the clip but made no comment.  So this probably means it was of little use or value.

The Order is for a final hearing for the first available date after 21 days.  Direction for Claimant to send fully paginated bundled document (does this mean they have to include my witness statement and defence statement also?).

And now I better go get some Christmas cards posted!

Coupon-mad

Direction for Claimant to send fully paginated bundled document (does this mean they have to include my witness statement and defence statement also?).

Yes, sounds like the ball is in their court to do a joint bundle.  

I am not sure this directions hearing has helped at all except you got away with not filing your WS in time and that's now not an issue!  Your main defence is that this is de minimis, a penalty and unfair, therefore there is no legitimate interest and the Beavis case is distinguished.  And the signs were 'badly located and badly lit for a dark morning' and were not seen and you did NOT agree to pay £100 to park as you did, caused by another car being over a line.   

In fact, during the Supreme Court hearing in Beavis, their Lordships talked about that exact scenario and agreed that would be 'unfair' (but it was an obiter point because the Beavis case wasn't about parking over a line).

The £60 added sounds like it will be disallowed; don't worry about what the rep said about an appeal.  That was merely a case of appealing against a strike out order, to reinstate a claim to a hearing.  VCS did this and boasted about it recently but it sounds like it was a damp squib, just like the Semark Jullien case, and was unlikely to find that adding £60 was justified - after all, how could an appeal Judge decide that in a case where no facts were known and that's why he reset the case for a hearing?!

This makes no sense because the Beavis case was about a FREE car park:

Re Beavis case - there is no such legitimate interest here as the parking is free, therefore it is a penalty and is unenforceable (but I did make a mental note towards the end of the hearing that this was not mentioned again, not even when my strengths were being commented on).

Uptown_Boy

Re. the bundle ... probably, yes. They'd have to file it with the court and serve it on you (i.e. send you a copy). Make sure all your documents are included, and that they've not modified them in any way (e.g. printing and poorly scanning images/photos to make them less effective).

Was anything said about costs?

MothballsWallet

Or you can view the data in a photo using a separate program, especially if your camera shoots in JPEG format: these contain something called EXIF data, and you can search for "exif viewer" on the web and get some results.

If you use Chrome, there's this extension that does the same thing - I've not tried it myself, but it may help get the data out in a format better suited for use in a WS.

KeithP

yellowdots said:

There is a box "Address for sending documents and payments" which is blank, but no mention anywhere else on the claim form of who their solicitors are.

The full title of that box is:

See those words - (if different)?

That should tell you that if that box is empty you should use the address in the box above for sending documents.

Snakes_Belly

"Judge summarised the weaknesses with regard to my defence: 1) that I'd had the opportunity to get out of the car and go over to the sign to read it properly (when I had the chance to speak I pointed out there were double yellow lines on both sides along the entrance/approach to car park and cars would also be queuing behind); 2) the terms did say to park in designated bays - although here Judge did say the sign shows an image of an X going through the incorrect way to park e.g. going across either line along the side of the car and in my case it was the rear wheels and I was parked correctly between the other lines at the side; 3) I had had opportunities to appeal and hadn't."

Regarding 1)  This is a train station car park and their signs are "War and Peace".

Regarding 2) Judge does not seem to see this as much of an issue.

Regarding 3). You could go to town on this. Appeal, it's a farce, which is why Sir Greg Knight introduced a PMB. The appeals  process as been described in Hansard as "putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank". It is not an independent appeal. The only way that you can hope to get any fairness is via the courts.

yellowdots

I thought I would update on my situation I actually missed my third and what would be my final Court Hearing on 15 September 2021 due to having Covid and didn’t notify the Court I would be absent.  I was too poorly to even care what day of the week it was.

I have since emailed my apology to the Court although have had no reply.  Not sure I was expecting one.

Please no admonishing comments, I have already beaten myself up about this for a week or more.  I am now well enough to try and address what my options are, although I do think my only option is to pay, as the Court awarded Vehicle Control Services the fine and costs and I now have a CCJ on record.  I am completely gutted as I had spent such a lot of time and effort with my defence and witness statement and even made a short video of the entry road to the car park, which the Court accepted as part of my witness statement.

I am thinking I just have to take it on the chin and pay …… £263.35, sickening for a free car park.  The Court have given a deadline of 1 November to pay this – in their Order which I received 4 weeks after the missed Court date.  After my own research, I now also realise if I had paid this within 2 weeks I could have avoided the CCJ on my record.  Should the Court have mentioned this and got the Order to me within 2 weeks of the Hearing?

I feel a bit miffed because if VCS had complied with the previous Judgement at my Hearing on 27 May 2021 and had actually sent me a physical composite bundle, this might have actually jolted me out of my sickness daze to even contact the Court and apologise for not being able to attend my Hearing.  I had explained at the Hearing on 27 May that I would find it difficult to switch windows on my laptop in order to refer to paperwork on the screen and also follow and give the Hearing my undivided attention.  The District Judge agreed and hence ordered I should receive a bundle from VCS at least 3 clear days of the next Hearing.  I did not receive a bundle in the post.

Thank you for all previous help and the information on this forum which did assist me a lot in compiling my documents for the Hearings I did attend.  But on this occasion I failed, gutted!!

Oh and I am writing to my MP on how disproportionate it is to get a CCJ on my file for parking on a free car park.

Le_Kirk

Who imposed the November 1st deadline?  If it was the court order, can you still meet this date?  If you pay later than the court imposed deadline your credit report will be marked as satisfied, not what you want.  You could try a set-aside on the basis of illness.

yellowdots

Yes the Court imposed 1 November deadline, 4 pm.  I can pay by that date yes (although a struggle).  I have read up about a set aside but worried that I will incur a fee and cannot guarantee the outcome.

Do you think if I pay by 1 November the CCJ will not go on my record?  Thank you for your quick reply, I am so anxious about all this.