Deeds Problem advice please

Mojisola

NE5 said:

I bought it 10 years ago from someone else

So it would have been registered with the LR then, if not before.

Did you ever see any paper deeds?  It's likely that they were destroyed when the property was first registered.

Falafels

NE5 said:

Ha ! Well, where are the old paper ones ? I checked with my solicitor and she said my flat is registered with LR and sent me a 4 page pdf file. Is this the deeds ? Why has someone destroyed them without asking me if that is the case ? I want to make sure this is all in order to sell soon. 

Don't worry! Yes, that 4 page pdf file is your deeds. When I put my house on the market last year, I took the (very thick) bundle of deeds along to the solicitor with me. He told me to take them home and leave them for my future purchaser.

They're nice to have, but completely unnecessary from a legal point of view. If nobody has them, then it does sound as though they've been destroyed without asking you.

AdrianC

Falafels said:
If nobody has them, then it does sound as though they've been destroyed without asking you.

Very likely years before the OP even first saw the property.

NE5

greatcrested said:

NE5 said:

I bought it 10 years ago from someone else, I had a small mortgage which I paid off in January. The prob surfaced because during lockdown the guy upstairs tried to sell and found there was a lease problem with mine. My solicitor has checked and she says my flat is registered correctly with me at LR, and sent me a pdf file.

Then why are you concerned?

As has been explained, your ownership is registered at the LR. Pay £3 here for a copy to check if you are worried.

When you sell, the buyer will get this same copy from the LR.

But I agree it's a shame not to have the historic paper deeds especially for an old house - I have deeds going back 100 years. Legally meaningless but nie to have.

I'm concerned because I thought that you need to have the deeds, and I dont understand the problem my neighbour had. I could ring him and ask why the previous sale collapsed, or did he get a solution himself.

I was happy when my solicitor said everything was fine at my end, but I had the niggling question that if my mortgage lender had the deeds then what have they done with them. I will dig out the letter. 

Edit
My upstairs neighbour told me that his solicitor told him, the LEASE was still registered with the owner of my flat before me. That is when and why I contacted her. 

NE5

I've added a line to the previous post. 

The document (PDF file) the solicitor sent me is from LR, and is an official copy of register of title.
It gives my Title number at the top. 
The sections are, A Property Register B Proprietorship Register C Charges Register, schedule of restricive covenants. This section Charges Register (C) lists a few names, one appears to be the 1st owner and says "a conveyance of the freehold estate in the land in this title and other land dated xxxxxxx made between 1. xxxxx (vendor)  2 xxxxxxx (trustees)  3. xxxxxx (subvendors)  and 4. xxxxxx (purchaser) contains covenants details of which are set out in the schedule of restrictive covenants hereto.
Then it gives a Schedule of restrictive covenants, which is nearly 3 pages long. 

The property register (A) correctly gives my name, the previous owner. date of purchase and also states the land barriers between my flat and upstairs. The propriety register (B) says the Title absolute is me with the address. 

My solicitor in her cover letter to me in May 2020 says she has checked my title at HMLR and it is registered (see attached copy)

A letter I had from LR in January 2020 says they have cancelled the entries relating to my mortgage and I can either obtain a copy of my registered title online or apply for a copy by post. (with the link etc)

The letter I got from my BS also in January 2020 says they have now closed my account and they willl release the charge on the property, all title and property documents are held electronicallly by LR. Either myself of my solicitor can order copies of all title and charge information from LR. 

So is this everything I need to know, is there anything else I need to do ?

AdrianC

NE5 said:

I'm concerned because I thought that you need to have the deeds 

Back in the day, before the Land Registry centralised property ownership records, your deeds were the proof you owned the property. They were the actual legal record. When you had a mortgage, the lender would have kept them - and lots of people kept a quid or two outstanding because the interest was cheap secure storage.

But from about 30yrs ago, all transactions HAD to be registered - and so properties were gradually moved from paper-based proof to centralised electronic proof.

You bought your place 10yrs ago - so your record of ownership is definitely with the LR.
You haven't said when the people you bought it from had bought it - but if it was during the 90s or 00s, then they'd have registered it on purchase.

Once it was registered, the paper deeds become a historical footnote, not the record of ownership.

NE5

Off the top of my head, the woman who owned the flat before me, had owned it for a while, since before 1995 probably, before they became regulated by LR.  Do you think I should phone the upstairs owner and ask him if there was a problem at his end, now he is in the process of selling again ? 

I've never met him, and tbh after he didn't help me out when I got a fence put up to secure the rear of mine and seperate it from his when he said he would, I don't particularly want to. 

Kyresa

I'm confused by this thread. 
Are you selling, or is your neighbour selling?  If your neighbour is selling, why does that involve you? 
And if you are selling, what exactly are you trying to find out?

greatcrested

I'm confused too.

Your property is registered. You own it. Your mortgage has been paid off. The mortgage Charge has been removed from the register. Your solicitor has told you all is well.

What is the issue.....?

NE5

Thank you for the advice, I'm confused too, I don't understand why my upstairs neighbour was told by his solicitor that the downstairs flat (mine) still had the old owner on the lease, which was before my solicitor checked it all out. 
If it helps, it is a Tyneside Lease, whatever difference that makes. 

It was suggested to me, that when I moved in, my solicitor forgot to get my name transferred at LR, and has just done it which is why she never charged me. Is this possible ? 

As it happens, I am thinking of getting it valued with a view to moving.