Traffic lights and box junctions

32Battalion

I'n not saying anything, for fear of the admins

Ditzy_Mitzy

To return to the original question, would it not be correct to treat the traffic lights and the box itself as discrete entities.  The stop line for the lights is several yards back from the box, therefore it doesn't appear that the traffic lights over-ride the box itself.  One should, presumably, treat it as junction without light controls once one has passed the lights and stop line.  Normal box junction rules would then apply. 
In ordinary circumstances going on green will mean that the lights on the other approach road are red, granting one free access through the box junction.

sweetsand

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

To return to the original question, would it not be correct to treat the traffic lights and the box itself as discrete entities.  The stop line for the lights is several yards back from the box, therefore it doesn't appear that the traffic lights over-ride the box itself.  One should, presumably, treat it as junction without light controls once one has passed the lights and stop line.  Normal box junction rules would then apply. 
In ordinary circumstances going on green will mean that the lights on the other approach road are red, granting one free access through the box junction.

Turning right, especially during peak traffic, the regualrs well some of them start banging their horn, intimidation as you are allowed to entre the box turning right so those behind you will make a big dram out of it and most people will move firward and then get caught out with those jumping red lights to tun left or stop a good cars lenght from the one in front forcing you to stop in or part in of the yellow box.  There lies the problem in heavy traffic.

nicechap

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

To return to the original question, would it not be correct to treat the traffic lights and the box itself as discrete entities.  The stop line for the lights is several yards back from the box, therefore it doesn't appear that the traffic lights over-ride the box itself.  One should, presumably, treat it as junction without light controls once one has passed the lights and stop line.  Normal box junction rules would then apply. 
In ordinary circumstances going on green will mean that the lights on the other approach road are red, granting one free access through the box junction.

Thats certainly one way of addressing it.  Its fine to enter a box junction to turn right, as long as the EXIT to the right is clear, some people then blame other people when they shouldn't have entered the box in the first place.  Sounding of a horn is only to alert another road user of your presence, not as a way of forcing someone to make an unsafe manoeuvre.

DoaM

nicechap said:
Sounding of a horn is only to alert another road user of your presence, not as a way of forcing someone to make an unsafe manoeuvre.

That reminds me of the new Russell Crowe film, Unhinged.

Homer_home

Supersonos said:

These replies still aren't really answering the question.

Stop line - do not cross on red.
Box junction - do not enter if exit is not clear.

But there have been occasions that I've crossed the line and can no longer even see the lights, and then later the exit to the box clears.  By the rules of the road, I can then enter the box (if it's safe to do so).

Why doesn't the box start immediately after the line?

There's a junction in Hammersmith where there is room for about three cars after the lights, then a box junction.  Who gives way to who?

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.491337,-0.223242,287.75h,-12.19p,1z

If you think its a good idea to enter a box junction after your traffic lights have turned red and therefore the other lights are green and you will be broadside on to traffic flow then can you let me know every time you are planning to drive anywhere so I can stay way the hell away from you 

AdrianC

Homer_home said:

Supersonos said:

These replies still aren't really answering the question.

Stop line - do not cross on red.
Box junction - do not enter if exit is not clear.

But there have been occasions that I've crossed the line and can no longer even see the lights, and then later the exit to the box clears.  By the rules of the road, I can then enter the box (if it's safe to do so).

Why doesn't the box start immediately after the line?

There's a junction in Hammersmith where there is room for about three cars after the lights, then a box junction.  Who gives way to who?

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.491337,-0.223242,287.75h,-12.19p,1z

If you think its a good idea to enter a box junction after your traffic lights have turned red and therefore the other lights are green and you will be broadside on to traffic flow then can you let me know every time you are planning to drive anywhere so I can stay way the hell away from you 

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he crossed the lights while they were green... simply before the exit from the junction was clear...

ontheroad1970

I suspect that the gaps often left between stop line and box are deliberate.  So they are there as a refuge to wait in.  Especially if there is at least 5m between stop line and the start of the box.

AdrianC

ontheroad1970 said:

I suspect that the gaps often left between stop line and box are deliberate.  So they are there as a refuge to wait in.  Especially if there is at least 5m between stop line and the start of the box.

No, it's simpler than that.

The box is the only part of the junction that is directly blocked by halfwits with zero observation or situational awareness.

You simply put yourself in a position where you're "stranded" in the rest of the junction, rather than it actively being illegal.

It's not hard. Assuming you're looking further than the brake lights of the car in front.

MinuteNoodles

Car_54 said:

MinuteNoodles said:

Green does not mean go regardless. Green means "only go if your exit is clear." It isn't clear therefore you don't cross the stop line. Simples. 

That is not what the Highway Code says - there is no mention of exits.

The relevant law is "... the green signal shall indicate that vehicular traffic may proceed beyond the stop line and proceed straight on or to the left or to the right".

But not crossing the stop line until your exit is clear IS WHAT YOU ARE TAUGHT WHEN YOU LEARN TO DRIVE and if you cross a stop line on green and end up stuck in the middle of a cross roads because of the traffic ahead stopping you from exiting the junction during your driving test you'll fail.