UKCPM Free Parking Overstay - Another one bites the dust ! 26/10/23

jag_run

Morning all,
I have read though a lot of threads on here, and a couple times the Newbie sticky... so hopefully I've not missed this somewhere!

My question is based on my circumstances / issuer of Parking Charge am I likely to have to pursue this all the way to a small claims court hearing? And, if I did what would be the best and worst case outcomes? I have seen some fantastically elegant and detailed appeals on here, and I'm very much tempted to fight it on the grounds of the ridiculously disproportionate charge. However on the flip side, I've got to weigh up if hours spent / potential time off work are worth the moral victory.

Briefly... the Parking Charge Notice has come from UK CPM Ltd (IPC Member) and was issued via ANPR to myself as the owner/keeper. The carpark is free stay for 3hrs, and the overstay is 30mins. (Complete accident!). The carpark itself has around 60-70 spaces, serving a chip shop, pub & small express type shop. The stay was from around 8am, so as you can imagine the carpark was pretty much empty as 2 of the 3 were closed. None of the shops were used on that occasion. The 'ticket' would have been £60, but they initially wrote to my old address (hadn't updated log book). Luckily the new owners messaged us about the letter, although they didn't say what the reference or date of overstay was. I contacted UK CPM for details of the ticket about on day 7, but they only replied on day 16... therefore now £100. I have not identified a driver to them or admitted guilt. I have advised of the new address.

Thank you very much

Redx

Yes they will reject any appeal

The IAS will reject your appeal so do not bother

Yes they will send debt collector letters and make legal threats

Yes it's likely to go to court

A typical loss in court for one PCN is £200 or so

A typical win for you in court could be around £100

That is the nature of the beast

So plan A is best , a complaint to the landowner and a resulting cancellation

Redx

Yes they will reject any appeal

The IAS will reject your appeal so do not bother

Yes they will send debt collector letters and make legal threats

Yes it's likely to go to court

A typical loss in court for one PCN is £200 or so

A typical win for you in court could be around £100

That is the nature of the beast

So plan A is best , a complaint to the landowner and a resulting cancellation

Ps

Mitigation won't work , they only want your money , not excuses

You have ZERO chance of winning on the difference in charge of of it being £100 , that argument was lost by Barry Beavis a few years ago in 3 separate courts , the last being the Supreme court , so binding on all lower courts. That argument will be laughed out of court and is a complete non starter

jag_run

Thank you @Redx for the super quick reply. I did get the feeling it was going to be ultimately a choice between small claims court or paying it.

I will attempt to contact the land owner, but I'm not sure they will be that supportive if I cannot back it up with saying I was shopping there at the time.

In terms of going doing the small claims court route, is that reliant on being able to pick up the issuer on some kind of technicality to actually win the case? Is this likely? I'd have assumed this being their "business" they would be quite adept by now of making it as legally watertight as they can.

nosferatu1001

Only a very small percentage of tickets go to court, so stop treating it as a certainty. You obviously dont make the choice - they do
Read the newbies thread, template defence. Carefully. 
Always ask the landowner to cancel. 

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up later this year,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

Redx

They are inept , not adept , but that does not stop the business model of entrapment , harassment , threats of court and CCJ,s and having 6 years to do so

It is very easy for the unwary to pick up a PCN from a private company , they issue 8 million per annum between them , the number increases year on year , the court claims are maybe 50 thousand ? Per annum , difficult to put a number on it , but we see a lot of threads about a few companies like yours , especially Gladstone's and b w legal who also get involved

You should do a lot more reading to get the gist , a lot more !!

You would have to win on a technicality , or them lose on a technicality (or incompetence) , these are all common

But your germ of an idea to claim the £100 is disproportionate will fail completely , the £100 daily default tariff has been around for a decade and the £85 in the Beavis case was upheld by the Supreme court

That argument has been tried and failed , it's dead in the water , you need a better technicality than the £100 charge being excessive

Umkomaas

I'm very much tempted to fight it on the grounds of the ridiculously disproportionate charge.

That's the very last thing on which you should be fighting this. ParkingEye v Beavis all but killed that off as an argument in private parking cases. 

Look towards signage (do you have your own photos? - essential), landowner authority, the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), compliance with the IPC Code of Practice, if this should get to court. Unfortunately UKCPM are the country's most litigious operator, but fortunately, almost every court case the forum assists sees the motorist winning against UKCPM. 

However on the flip side, I've got to weigh up if hours spent / potential time off work are worth the moral victory.

Capitulation simply feeds the monster, fortifying it to gorge on more hapless, vulnerable victims, many without the wherewithal to pay, even if they wanted to. That is immoral. 

jag_run

Thanks @Redx / @Umkomaas - I wasn't very clear in what I meant. I am aware that from a legal standpoint the 'ridiculous charge' aspect is no longer a consideration. What I mean was if to fight the PCN as the morally right thing to do. If the charge was somewhat more realistic, for example maybe £20-£30 area then it would seem fairer given the supposed offence. It is clear money grabbing at the current rate, and there is no real justification in my mind for a the discount/increase either in such a short amount of time.

I'm going to go there and check out the signage and take it from there. Thanks

Umkomaas

I'm going to go there and check out the signage and take it from there. Thanks

Careful where you park!  You don't want a second one to deal with! 😃

jag_run

Umkomaas said:

I'm going to go there and check out the signage and take it from there. Thanks

Careful where you park!  You don't want a second one to deal with! 😃

Haha, It's OK I've got 3hrs free parking to get the Polaroid set up!