Denplan doing OK

Dr_Crypto

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&

The terror of AGPs is ridiculous, what do you think the other health professions have been doing all this time?  They can’t run away from them and lots of them are in far riskier positions than a dental surgery! 

The fear of AGPs is well founded and all healthcare providers have been taking care with them. Elective activity in the NHS everywhere was all but stopped until late June and we all have a huge backlog.
Dentistry involves very high risk AGPs unlike most medicine which isn’t AGP. In hospitals we were told not to even look inside mouths as it is was so risky (the virus is thought to live in the throat). 

Pretty sure the staff on the respiratory wards, the critical care areas, the emergency departments and the end of life care settings didn’t refuse to do AGPs or go near throats.  How on earth do you think staff even managed to do swab tests without looking in throats!! 

They wear PPE. I can assure you as someone who has worked in at least one of those departments through this that we were not doing throat exams without FFP3 PPE. ENTUK even issued policy on it (2 ENT surgeons died from covid).

I do vaguely know what I’m talking about (the clue is in the username). 

So yes dentists are right in their caution over AGPs particularly as much dental work is very AGP generating. Most medical work isn’t apart from specific procedures eg anaesthesia, chest drains, expectorants, autopsy, etc. 

epm-84

mandiesnackz said:

As someone that works in a dentist, (not denplan) why would you have missed 4 check ups? We shut in April & have re opened. So 4 months-ish. 

My dentist (who is Denplan) says he does recall examinations in 3, 6, 9 or 12 months depending on the condition of your teeth, so for two people 4 checkups during lockdown is possible. 

onwards&upwards

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&

The terror of AGPs is ridiculous, what do you think the other health professions have been doing all this time?  They can’t run away from them and lots of them are in far riskier positions than a dental surgery! 

The fear of AGPs is well founded and all healthcare providers have been taking care with them. Elective activity in the NHS everywhere was all but stopped until late June and we all have a huge backlog.
Dentistry involves very high risk AGPs unlike most medicine which isn’t AGP. In hospitals we were told not to even look inside mouths as it is was so risky (the virus is thought to live in the throat). 

Pretty sure the staff on the respiratory wards, the critical care areas, the emergency departments and the end of life care settings didn’t refuse to do AGPs or go near throats.  How on earth do you think staff even managed to do swab tests without looking in throats!! 

They wear PPE. 

Is there some reason why dentists can't wear PPE?  They wear some anyway, they should be familiar with the concept...

onwards&upwards

ripplyuk said:

 By law the staff have to have the fp3 masks off at least every hour as oxygen levels drop and people overheat in the PPE . 

@brook2jack I thought that was a myth! I was wearing an FFP3 mask for 6 hours on Friday, without a break. Was that dangerous? I didn’t notice any ill effects but I don’t want to be depriving myself of oxygen. 

It is a myth, either that or dentists physiology is different from that of doctors, nurses, physios and ODPs!

dcweather

Can this be got back on topic! The OP, like me, wants to know what their rights are in terms of a rebate for paid for dental plans that were not and could not have been carried out due to being closed or restricted. In my case this would have been two free hygiene visits and an inspection. I have now paid almost 6 months of premiums for services and benefits which could not be met. Presumably the staff were furloughed and the practice got some compensation so where is mine?

Dr_Crypto

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&

The terror of AGPs is ridiculous, what do you think the other health professions have been doing all this time?  They can’t run away from them and lots of them are in far riskier positions than a dental surgery! 

The fear of AGPs is well founded and all healthcare providers have been taking care with them. Elective activity in the NHS everywhere was all but stopped until late June and we all have a huge backlog.
Dentistry involves very high risk AGPs unlike most medicine which isn’t AGP. In hospitals we were told not to even look inside mouths as it is was so risky (the virus is thought to live in the throat). 

Pretty sure the staff on the respiratory wards, the critical care areas, the emergency departments and the end of life care settings didn’t refuse to do AGPs or go near throats.  How on earth do you think staff even managed to do swab tests without looking in throats!! 

They wear PPE. 

Is there some reason why dentists can't wear PPE?  They wear some anyway, they should be familiar with the concept...

None except the reasons outlined - availability and cost. In hospitals we have lots of people and kit to do fit tests for masks and actually pretty good supplies and have done for a while. That’s mainly because the government basically took over all PPE and gave it to hospitals. 

Even GPs struggled at the start as there was simply no PPE. 

FFP3 availability isn’t great still and often a change of mask type is needed meaning all staff have to be fit tested again. This is easy in a hospital not so much in a dental surgery.
Its not great and we in hospitals have seen the consequences of dental practices being closed but this was Government policy and probably the correct one too. 

onwards&upwards

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&upwards said:

Dr_Crypto said:

onwards&

The terror of AGPs is ridiculous, what do you think the other health professions have been doing all this time?  They can’t run away from them and lots of them are in far riskier positions than a dental surgery! 

The fear of AGPs is well founded and all healthcare providers have been taking care with them. Elective activity in the NHS everywhere was all but stopped until late June and we all have a huge backlog.
Dentistry involves very high risk AGPs unlike most medicine which isn’t AGP. In hospitals we were told not to even look inside mouths as it is was so risky (the virus is thought to live in the throat). 

Pretty sure the staff on the respiratory wards, the critical care areas, the emergency departments and the end of life care settings didn’t refuse to do AGPs or go near throats.  How on earth do you think staff even managed to do swab tests without looking in throats!! 

They wear PPE. 

Is there some reason why dentists can't wear PPE?  They wear some anyway, they should be familiar with the concept...

None except the reasons outlined - availability and cost. In hospitals we have lots of people and kit to do fit tests for masks and actually pretty good supplies and have done for a while. That’s mainly because the government basically took over all PPE and gave it to hospitals. 

Even GPs struggled at the start as there was simply no PPE. 

FFP3 availability isn’t great still and often a change of mask type is needed meaning all staff have to be fit tested again. This is easy in a hospital not so much in a dental surgery.
Its not great and we in hospitals have seen the consequences of dental practices being closed but this was Government policy and probably the correct one too. 

Dental practices wouldn't need anything like the huge numbers of masks that hospitals need. 

Care homes, hospices and small private providers have managed to source PPE.  

Oral health is health, it matters. 

brook2jack2

dcweather said:

Can this be got back on topic! The OP, like me, wants to know what their rights are in terms of a rebate for paid for dental plans that were not and could not have been carried out due to being closed or restricted. In my case this would have been two free hygiene visits and an inspection. I have now paid almost 6 months of premiums for services and benefits which could not be met. Presumably the staff were furloughed and the practice got some compensation so where is mine?

As said earlier in the thread dentists and hygienists are self employed so couldn't go on furlough , if their earnings were above £50,000 they could not get a self employment grant. 

If a practice had nhs commitment it could not furlough staff.
Dental  surgeries got less Financial help than betting shops as they could not claim many of the grants such as rate rebates . 

Subscriptions is all that has kept many practices from going under and they will be working extra hours and days to clear the backlog of treatment. 

brook2jack2

onwards&upwards said:

ripplyuk said:

 By law the staff have to have the fp3 masks off at least every hour as oxygen levels drop and people overheat in the PPE . 

@brook2jack I thought that was a myth! I was wearing an FFP3 mask for 6 hours on Friday, without a break. Was that dangerous? I didn’t notice any ill effects but I don’t want to be depriving myself of oxygen. 

It is a myth, either that or dentists physiology is different from that of doctors, nurses, physios and ODPs!

Actually it is in HSE regulations https://marketcross.org/Downloads/hsg53.pdf
also as dentists have to wear a surgical mask over valved FFP3 Masks hence negating the ease of breathing out oxygen sats drop pretty quickly . 

brook2jack2

Dental practices wouldn't need anything like the huge numbers of masks that hospitals need. 

Care homes, hospices and small private providers have managed to source PPE.  

Oral health is health, it matters. 

Oral health does matter but dentists were not even at the back of the queue for PPE we were not even in the queue. 

Our practice put in orders for our usual PPE in February and those orders have still not been fulfilled. Most PPE was ring fenced for nhs use and dentists, as independent contractors , were not in that supply chain. 

What we could get hold of , eg surgical masks , increased in price from £3 ish a box to £35 a box , £85 at one suppliers. 

Care homes do not need anything like the PPE that a dentist carrying out aerosol surgical procedures need. Dentists needed , suddenly , to source different PPE like FFP3 masks . These were all reserved for nhs and anyway there is a worldwide shortage . They also needed fit testing . No fit tester were available , all were working in the nhs . So many dentists trained to fit test people . Except there is a world wide shortage of fit testing kits and the chemicals needed.

Everything from mouthwashes , to antiseptic cleaners , to surgical gowns and caps , to gloves is in short supply , often impossible to get and at a cost many times what it was pre covid.