Not fairly furloughed

HollyTrees

sharpe106 said:

Another down side of the furlough scheme, I would be more worried then that job cuts are in the future. How many staff were furloughed? If they can cope without that how long do you think they will keep that many of staff on for?

I see what you mean, but the company normally have a standard desellection scheme if redundancies are coming into affect, I. E. high sickness records, attitude towards colleagues and skill base.
Some of the ones furloughed have been foremen,  so its highly unlikely they will be layed off.  The only reason they coped without that particular foreman is they passed the role onto second in command. 

Grumpy_chap

How many people in the company?
How many were furloughed?

Thrugelmir

HollyTrees said:

Thrugelmir said:

HollyTrees said:

sharpe106 said:

HollyTrees said:

sharpe106 said:

Surely the ones that were furloughed have had to use the holiday to so they won't be having it at Christmas either. 

No thats the whole point. They haven't had to touch their annual leave. They basically been given 3 weeks off for free on full pay. 80% paid by the government, so the company were saving money and taking full advantage of it. 

Don't they have to take holiday in August to?

The company is far from being in trouble. They have been busy all throughout lockdown. It was very much business as usual. 

If that were the case no employees would have been furloughed. As there would have been work to do.  Always comes as a shock when the true state of Company finances becomes known. 

They were late in starting to furlough anyone anyway. In the end according to the union they literally took advantage of furlough but a bit late for it to go around to every member of staff unless they closed down. But its been very much business as usual. 

From a management perspective suggests that the operation is over staffed if there was no consequence , i.e. loss of output/productivity with certain individuals missing. Payroll is the major cost for most employers. Improving efficiency is always high on the list. 

Thrugelmir

HollyTrees said:

Barny1979 said:

Ultimately there were roles that could be furloughed and your husband's role and others wasn't able to be furloughed as key to day to day operation of business. I have a friend whose company went down to 5 staff in a business, rest were furloughed and they were limping along to keep a business for the furloughed staff to come back to, they are a director and had to pick up the ordering, invoicing etc and warehouse ended up with just 2 people working.

But where hubby works its been business as usual all throught lockdown. Thats what has been baffling. They started furloughing when lockdown was almost over which didnt make sense. 

Customer requirements maybe falling as existing orders are fulfilled. Lockdown is far from over in the wider economy. The full impact of the downturn has yet to be felt. 

JCS1

You may consider it unfair, but it is legal.

k12479

HollyTrees said:
Well it was the union that unearthed the company was merely taking advantage of furlough...

Whilst not wishing to add to all the comments challenging your position, I wouldn't take a union's view as fact.

diggingdude

other than 2 days leave i have worked this entire crisis.  seems unfair that millions sat at home on furlough...where's my compo?

Furlough wasn't put in place so everyone got a 3 week jolly, it was there to save jobs.  There is NO entitlement to furlough as said by others, and your husband, whilst having every right to be personally annoyed, has no right to question his employer. 

If he won't have enough leave for christmas he has clearly used too much leave earlier in the year which is his problem not the employers, in future spread it out a bit better.  You need to think about challenging the holiday demand, if husband is awkward and they coped fine with staff furloughed, then being a pain now may put him top of lists he didn't want to be on

suki1964

I haven't read all the replies

I just wanted to put my side, of what happened where I work

I work in vegetable production. We supply cut, prepared veg to all sorts of places, chippies, restaurants, cook chill, hotels, prisons, - you name a catering industry and we supply

80% of our our customers were forced to close over night

So whilst we still had work, there wasn't enough to keep everyone on their contacted hours

Two were furloughed from day one, one with health issues, another with child care issues

We struggled along those of us left, using our holidays to make up our hours

So I volunteered for furlough, at 80%

I was furloughed until last week when the hospitality trade could open here. I was called @ 9pm asking could I be in the following day - I was there at 7am

The lass with childcare issues was also rang, she said she needed notice, and two weeks later she's not back

Whilst I was on furlough, if extra help was required, a workers daughter was brought in. Paid a lot less then me, no pension to be paid, no NI or tax etc

Drivers without deliveries were pulled in to work on the line to make their hours up. They were painting the factory , cementing the yard, all sorts of jobs that needed doing but outside of their remit, just so they made their hours

So I could have an argument that there was enough work for me, even if it meant we were all on short hours

My co - workers, could also be bitter about me having 7 weeks " paid holiday "

And maybe there is a bit of resentment on their side, I don't know

Because we all accept that if staff hadn't been furloughed, there wasn't enough work, therefore profit coming in during that time to keep us all in a job now we are out the other side ( near enough )

And we don't know what's going to happen after August , after the meal deals, after furlough pay comes to an end and staff are laid off so don't have money to eat out. We don't know if another lockdown will happen, we don't know what these next few months will bring

I haven't been treated any differently or ostracised by my co workers so I can only assume they don't bare a grudge or think it was unfair. Me taking furlough meant they got near enough their full hours and didn't have to dig too deep into their holiday allowance . At the same time because I have had a "paid holiday " I won't be looking to take holiday for a good while which means they get first dibs on the dates we are allowed to take holidays ( we cant take holidays when the rest of the country take theirs, we are limited to when we can because of the needs of the business )

The business comes first. Without the business we don't get paid. The only guaranteed day off we get is Christmas Day, other then that day our holidays are dictated by the needs of the business. 


I would suggest that your husband stops taking notice of what others are doing or not and just go and do his days work and come home. Thats what he's paid for

The_Fat_Controller

I think the company have handled it well.
It's not "business as usual" if they have ANYONE on furlough.
Their income will be severely impacted, however they have been very generous in topping up the extra 20% for those on furlough which will impact their bottom line, they cannot claim that back from anyone.
You and your husband should realise they are in a very fortunate place compared to many.

warby68

Furlough wasn't designed as a 'perk' which is what OP is seeing it as and that all staff should have had equal dibs.
It was a survival strategy for employers and the decision making lies with them.
Yes, its easy to go down the 'its not fair' hole but it certainly isn't something I would voice as an employee in these very uncertain times.
The holiday leave is a business management issue as well - if the impact of a week in August means that certain employees have nothing left then it sounds like that wasn't managed especially well ,or too generously, beforehand and there could perhaps be a compromise for those affected in this way as they only have a week to use up for rest of the year. For the business to ensure the normal amount of leave overall has been used by a certain time is sensible, for it to want leave taken when business can better stand it is also sensible. It could be sensible for a business to dictate when ALL leave is taken - plenty have to do that because of their particular business demands. Telling you when to take one week out of 4 or 5 is not unreasonable in that context is it?
OP,  you and OH might be better keeping your heads down and not being swayed by the vocal masses failing to see where the balance of power actually lies - there is a long road ahead here.