Elderly Parents getting Ripped Off

Gerry1

matelodave said:

Gerry1 said:

The daytime background usage for electricity when nothing much is being used should be around 150W - 300W or so, basically fridge, freezer and a few things on standby.

Tell your parents to keep and eye of the meter's red flashing light: 3200 flashes means it's used 1kWh, so expect to see 8 - 16 flashes per minute.  If it's flashing far more than this then you can switch off invidual circuits to find which one is using all that power.

Also get your parents to take daily or weekly meter readings to make sure they are staying reasonable.

Flash rate depends on the meter, my previous one was 1000 flashes per kwh, the present one is 4000 per kwh but it's usually got it written on the front. (You do have to be a bit dedicated to check a low level consumption and it helps if you've got a stopwatch). If they've still got the IHD and it still works then its even easier to work out what is being used.

The OP's parents meter is 3200 Impulses (flashes) per kWh, so it's unhelpful to confuse them with whatever your own meter happens to do !

There's little need for a stopwatch either, the problem is excessive consumption, and if that's happening the flash rate will be high.  Its annual consumption corresponds to an average throughout the year of just under 1kW, which is 53 flashes per minute.

If the consumption is low level then obviously there's no problem

Glancing at the red LED is a quick and simple way to get a rough idea about what's happening at any moment.  If the IHD is working it may help, but it may well be highly misleading if it's a case of GIGO because its dumb database isn't correct.

xlnc99

Robin9 said:

xlnc99 said:

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i want to switch and ile do it right now but how do i now if im getting a good deal? (not saying i do not trust your judgement at all) but is it not better that i know what exactly i am doing or looking for when making a big decision like this? I am sure you are correct and your advice is 99% perfect but i still dont know what i am doing to be honest. And its good for me to learn so i dont have to rely on other people who may not always be there to help me

That's where all the comparison sites come into play - they do all the sums for you  -you just need to know annual consumptions

Look at MSE's Cheap Energy Club, Switch with Which, CAB .......................................... 


PS What do do back at your own property ??????????????????


   

Yes i will do that but its hard to put in my annual consumptions for my parents due to the discrepancies? The high usage, and high bills is something we haven't worked out. I mean Jan/Feb bill is still not rectified so i cant put in the consumption for my parents annual based on the last 12 months as i am sure its not right.

matelodave said:

The problem with on-line accounts is that you dont end up with drawers full of bills that you can refer to, they all sit on a server somewhere which mean that they aren't under your control anymore - it's a good idea to try and download bills every month (or when they are issued) and save your own copy - I've still got PDF copies of my bills going back nearly 10 years.

Just a thought and I dont really know what is possible with your meters or In Home Device (assuming that your parents still have it and that it still works) but I can still access up to 13 months worth of monthly consumption history from my meter using my IHD.

It's a different meter to yours, so I don't know what is possible - perhaps someone else knows. Mines an Elster meter, supplied by SSE but it's been"dumb" for nearly three years and I've had four different suppliers. - I've just checked I used 244kwh in June 2019 which compares with 249 on my own spreadsheet). If yours still has that capability it might be possible to cross check consumption against monthly bills.

if you could let me know how to this, i will certainly do it

Gerry1 said:

xlnc99 said:

Gerry1 said:

xlnc99 said:

Once i figured this out i can move on to gas and finally switch supplier!

As repeatedly mentioned, it would take about all of 10 minutes to switch gas right now, the fixed tariff for which which is about to end so you'll have to do it soon anyway.

The gas usage is almost certainly correct: I use more in a detached 2.5. bedroom house occupied during the day.

The RHE/Ebico gas-only deal is likely to save hundreds of pounds, if it's still available.

By doing nothing you're just making a rod for your parents' back.  You'll have 14 days to cancel, so there's nothing to lose.

i want to switch and ile do it right now but how do i now if im getting a good deal? (not saying i do not trust your judgement at all) but is it not better that i know what exactly i am doing or looking for when making a big decision like this? I am sure you are correct and your advice is 99% perfect but i still dont know what i am doing to be honest. And its good for me to learn so i dont have to rely on other people who may not always be there to help me

I mean, car insurance, banks, cars, sports etc - ask me anything i can answer. Energy - i have no idea. So when switching how do i know the cheapest supplier? What  do i look out for? Some guidance on these issues would be nice so i can make an informed decision

Agreed, you need to learn the ropes yourself so you understand what's involved.  You MUST compare annual kWh usage from actual meter readings, and you MUST ignore all claims, projections and savings.  Thanks to Ofgem's crazy formula, you won't get them.  Never go with Look After My bills or similar, DIY is far better.

Many sites default to showing only the expensive suppliers who pay commission, which is why Citizens Advice and 'Switch with Which?' are two good places to start.  MSE's CEC is quite good but doesn't show Neon Reef which is one of the cheapest for electricity, so that's naughty.

You can always post the results here and ask what people think, but do get going very PDQ for gas.

Ok so always ignore projections, savings etc. Look at ACTUAL USAGE. I got that. Perfect, thanks for that i am gonna switch this weekend to see what the cheapest is based on last years readings. Problem i have is i believe last year readings are not accurate so its hard to make a judgement of good price based on that.bsms1147 said:

The latest meter readings match the bills so I think you'll have to move on from January's figures. Why the big jump might never be known, but you won't be able to claim anything back.

Head to a comparison site, I suggest using 5500kwh electricity and 30000kwh gas as the figures, and taking it from there. Run dual and single fuel searches. And moving forwards try and get consumption down through as many means as possible. At the very least do it for gas.

So are you saying that JAN/FEB is lost? I cant claim them back no matter what? Surely that cant be rights, its clear as night and day there is an issue there. Who has made the mistake, i dont know but there is a mistake. Why is it impossible to not claim anything back? That is just totally unfair.

xlnc99

RelievedSheff said:

Talldave said:

Things won't work out if the meter readings switched from one register to another, the offset will be permanent. But I can't think how you could prove or disprove it unless someone did a read of all registers when it was installed? Presumably at some point it was "smart"??

I know elderly people can be a bit wacky but can anyone explain how they went from 13kWh a day to 130kWh a day???

Use of electric heaters perhaps rather than the central heating?

We have this conversation every year with the OHs father. He insists on using a electric fan heater all day to heat one room because he believes it is more economical than heating the whole house with the gas boiler!

We can't explain it to him. So just leave him too it and then listen to him complain about his bills.

Never used electric heaters - new boiler installed in OCT. Meant to be energy saving aswell!Gerry1 said:

The daytime background usage for electricity when nothing much is being used should be around 150W - 300W or so, basically fridge, freezer and a few things on standby.

Tell your parents to keep and eye of the meter's red flashing light: 3200 flashes means it's used 1kWh, so expect to see 8 - 16 flashes per minute.  If it's flashing far more than this then you can switch off invidual circuits to find which one is using all that power.

Also get your parents to take daily or weekly meter readings to make sure they are staying reasonable.

I have noticed the meter red flashing light, its always flashing red when i am looking at it.  What does that mean? I no my parents have BG electrical cover - is it worth calling them over for a once over? Having said that they already came out in Nov/Dec/Jan to do a check and gave the house a thorough check for its electrics. Could that be a cause of the high usage in JAN?click86 said:

Has the OP provided figures prior to January?

Without seeing the December bill, its hard to say what happened in January.

What if, the December bill (and earlier) were under estimated by the supplier...

It could explain the huge jump in January when actual readings were logged.

If the original poster could share those bills, we can get a clearer picture of what happened before January's jump.

Yes i have posted all the bills for the last 12 months on this thread. 

Robin9

xinc99 - at the end of the day it doesn't matter too much what annual consumptions you use - as suggested use 5.500 kWh for electric and 30,000 for gas. If it proves to be 5,000  and 27,000  then all that will happen is that the DD will be 10% too high -  and that's where you are now.

Don't get hung up on the past - make sure the future is right.

click86

Could I ask that you put up a picture of the December bill, please?

Just page 2 of the bill should be fine (so there is no identifiable information).

From your screenshot on page 8 of this thread, this is from the energy consumption graph page on the Scottish Power website, which isn't hugely accurate unless you submit on the 1st of each month, every month.

Talldave

Everyone seems to be getting bogged in the minutiae of electricity consumption whilst forgetting the 4000ķWh issue that the OP keeps asking about.

Unless your parents ran a cannabis factory for one month, the 4000kWh leap isn't explained. Along with one other poster I've suggested that there's another meter register running in sync but behind the actual total.  If this had been used up until January then the leap in January is potentially explained by a switch to the actual total register. In this scenario, @Gerry1's "it'll all even out" hypothesis doesn't work.

That said, it seems almost impossible that your mum read one register consistently for several months/years and then switched consistently to another from January onwards. Unless the meter wakes up in "display last displayed register" mode and she had some finger trouble in January? 

Other than that I'm out of ideas.

The general monthly consumption is high, but nothing to get worked up about. Switching 400kWh a month to the cheapest supplier saves more than doing nothing about switching and turning a few lights off.

Similarly the gas is high-ish but at least the consumption sensibly tracks the months of the year sensibly.  They're old and like to be warm - so what, let them!   The only action necessary is to switch.  And urgently in order to grab the Ebico deal. Every month waiting for a cheaper deal is more money down the drain.

Gerry1

xlnc99 said:

I have noticed the meter red flashing light, its always flashing red when i am looking at it.  What does that mean?

Provided that it's the red light on the meter and not the comms unit above it, each flash means you you've used a dollop of electricity.  233 flashes and it's cost 1p.  3200 flashes and it's used 1kWh costing 13.734p.  The faster it flashes, the more it's costing you.

As previously stated when most things aren't in use then expect perhaps around 8 - 15 flashes per minute.

Think of it like a dripping tap, 100 drips and you get a dessert spoon, a million and you get a bathful.

MWT

Talldave said:

Everyone seems to be getting bogged in the minutiae of electricity consumption whilst forgetting the 4000ķWh issue that the OP keeps asking about.

I think you need to look at the gas and electricity usage during that time...

At the time time as the electricity use is spiking high, the gas use suddenly nose-dives by 2400kWh...

By way of comparison, my Jan/Feb/Mar gas usages were all pretty similar and only a little below December.

Then as the gas usage goes back up in Feb the electricity goes down ...

Even without that, as long as the current meter readings are being provided correctly it doesn't matter if there was a rogue reading in the middle as it would just have shifted the payment for the extra units to the earlier month, it can't have added units to the total.

You'll see there is another blip in May where electricity spikes, and is then followed by an unrealistically low June figure, that would suggest an incorrect May meter reading followed by a correct June reading perhaps? 

Robin9

Any possibility that the gas and electric readings have been transposed in those months ?

MWT

Robin9 said:

Any possibility that the gas and electric readings have been transposed in those months ?

No, if you look at the images of the bills for December and January, the meter reading numbers are too different, electricity is in the 39xxx range and gas is 12xxx

It would be helpful to see the images for the February, March and April bills though...