Treadmill - Distance Selling Regulations Query

CardinalWolsey

The challenge with issues on a treadmill is that you never seem to get anywhere.

freeze

Update: 

I've had no response from the retailer and it has now been 6 days. I've emailed Klarna to update them that a refund has been requested from the retailer to no avail and that I will be notifying my bank to cancel the direct debit for the scheduled payments to Klarna (originally over 12 months).

I am also going to email the retailer once again tomorrow to try and push for some sort of response.

Failing that I was going to start a section 75 claim against Klarna to get my deposit back as I'm not sure what else I can do if the position of the retailer is that it's nothing to do with them? 

Is there anything else I can/should do or would anyone else approach it differently? 

freeze

Manxman_in_exile said:

freeze said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I doubt it's correct, what's the website you purchased from?

Edit to add

www.klarna.com/uk/customer-service/csc/returns/

What should I do if I want to cancel my order?

If you would like to cancel your order, we ask you to contact the store where you made your purchase.

It was purchased from: https://fitnessequipmentni.co.uk/home/terms-conditions/ 

I'll send them a screen shot of the page from that link. Seems a bizarre response from them

I've never heard of them and I buy a lot of fitness stuff online.  I presume they are in Northern Ireland.  They do sell to the general public do they?  What I mean is they don't do trade sales only, do they?

So long as you are cancelling within 14 days, I don't see what Klarna finance have to do with it, except you probably have a s75 claim agianst them jointly with the supplier.  Is the supplier trying to say they sold it to Klarna Finance, and you bought it from Klarna in an entirely separate arms-length transaction?  That's bo77ocks surely.

(See my next post for reasonable use etc - I can't do multi quotes)

Yes it seems so, I didn't see anything to suggest commercial only. Would it make a difference them being trade only and selling to me?  

Well they haven't said that but that would seem to be what they're implying by saying cancelling an order and returns are nothing to do with them because I've used the Klarna finance option they provide on their website....  

And as you saying, unboxing and testing the machine out would seem reasonable to me and fall within the letter of the law. I'm a bit miffed as to why they're not engaging unless they're potentially having money issues

Manxman_in_exile

Well - if they only sell to trade purchasers (and they make this clear at point of sale) you may have a bit of an argument on your hands establishing your status as a consumer rather than as a business (with fewer rights than a consumer).  But I've probably not heard of them before only because they're based in Ireland.  If it's not clear from their site that they are trade only, you can probably assume you're a "consumer".

I'd never heard of Klarna before either, but looking at Cotswold Outdoor the other day I noticed they seem to be providing finance there too.

I'm no expert on consumer credit, so wait to see if you get any other replies.  I'm assuming that in effect Klarna finance your purchase from the supplier, and you repay Klarna in instalments via your bank?  If klarna provide the finance I presume (I don't know) that you try a s75 against them.  I'm not sure though whether canceling your DD from your bank was the right thing to do at this stage.  See what others say.

As I posted before, we had no difficulty returning our rowing m/c after we challenged our supplier's initial response.  But from the reponses my thread got here, it's clear that a lot of people felt that unpacking, assembling, and trying out the m/c did amount to excessive handling.  I suspect your supplier feels the same so you may have a struggle on your hands.  [EDIT:  Remember - you only have grounds for a s75 refund if you can establish that you are entitled to a refund from the supplier.  You have to get over that hurdle either way.  See what others say].

custardy

freeze said:

eddddy said:

freeze said:

I only ask because the immediate response I have got to requesting a refund is: 

"What is the reason for return also has the goods been used and is it back in its original packaging?" 

I was under the impression with the Distance Selling Regulations you don't "need" to have or provide a reason? 

From what you say, the reason is that you are returning it is that you are within the statutory 14 day cancellation period.

I guess they are asking this in case you're returning because it was broken, bits were missing, it was not as described etc.

And maybe you add that you removed it from its packaging to inspect it, and have put it back in it's packaging (if that's the case).

That's basically the main thrust of why I'm returning it. 

There was nothing broken that caught my eye, more it didn't seem to work as smoothly (app etc). 

Yes it was unpacked and tested, then repackaged as was. Which I'm hoping most would think is reasonable?

Your OP relates to 2 factors that could easily be researched before purchase.
I know its not in the consumers rights area but do yourself and retailers a favour in researching what you need/want

freeze

custardy said:

freeze said:

eddddy said:

freeze said:

I only ask because the immediate response I have got to requesting a refund is: 

"What is the reason for return also has the goods been used and is it back in its original packaging?" 

I was under the impression with the Distance Selling Regulations you don't "need" to have or provide a reason? 

From what you say, the reason is that you are returning it is that you are within the statutory 14 day cancellation period.

I guess they are asking this in case you're returning because it was broken, bits were missing, it was not as described etc.

And maybe you add that you removed it from its packaging to inspect it, and have put it back in it's packaging (if that's the case).

That's basically the main thrust of why I'm returning it. 

There was nothing broken that caught my eye, more it didn't seem to work as smoothly (app etc). 

Yes it was unpacked and tested, then repackaged as was. Which I'm hoping most would think is reasonable?

Your OP relates to 2 factors that could easily be researched before purchase.
I know its not in the consumers rights area but do yourself and retailers a favour in researching what you need/want

I'll take the point about the vertical storage, though two other identical models I'd seen both had pictures showing the unit stored vertically but fair enough. 

Size wise the unit technically fits in my living room but takes up more floor space than envisioned, something I think is fair to say you might not fully appreciate without seeing it "in the flesh"?

The actual problem here is the retailer is denying/ignoring my request to cancel the order and get a refund. Surely this is against either or both the Consumer Rights Act 2015 & the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013? 

And if so, I don't really know where to turn to at this point other than try and start a Section 75 claim against Klarna (the finance provider). Preferably I'd rather have done this after sending the item back by recorded delivery but I can't get the retailer to confirm a return address (at this point I've emailed Klarna too and they have said they will raise a complaint about the retailer) 

I have the first direct debit due within the next week or so, which I really don't want to start paying, on an item that has been packed away by the front door for over a week and is not wanted  

cymruchris

Good treadmills by their nature are large. If you want to run on one - you benefit from having a large belt surface area. You would have seen the dimensions before ordering - and checked the location to see if it would fit? If you're trying to say that it does fit but now just 'looks big' - well that's what a good treadmill would look like in a small room. Yes you can buy smaller treadmills - but they are quite a pain to run on.

Also - you say you wanted a vertical storage unit - but bought one that didn't vertically store. Your reason for return is that it doesn't store vertically that you assumed it did. Was there anywhere that it stated that it stored vertically? If not, it would have been better to 'Ask a question' rather than assume. This feels more like a case of buyers remorse, having bought something, then realised you wanted something else. You'd be entitled to remove the box - have a look - and if you didn't like what you saw, pack it back up again, but once you've used it - they'd be within their rights to reduce the refund offered, and to decide on what that refund would be. (It could be 50 percent of what you paid - as they'd have to sell your product as 'used')

freeze

Update: 

The manager of the retailer has now come back quite aggressively (over two weeks after I originally asked to return the item) stating that there would be a 30% restocking fee (just north of £200) . 

While I was originally content to pay the £30-40 shipping fee if the item didn't work in the space I have etc I think it'd be fair to draw the line at paying over £200 + £30/40 shipping for unboxing and walking on it for 10 minutes? I really see no difference between that and walking around in a pair of shoes and deciding they're not for you. 

The box turned up in a dilapidated state with it being partially open as someone had stuck the power cord & plug just underneath the box flaps and had tried to parcel tape it...poorly. The foam casing inside was also partially cracked (all of which I have pictures of). None of this had originally irked me but now that they want me to pay £200 for something I've barely touched because they say they can't sell as new, seems bizzare the condition it arrived at my door. 

It feels like I'm being strong armed into a position where if I want to return the item that I have to pay £250 to do so... which I would have thought the legislation was designed to protect against (and also protect retailers against unnecessary careless handling of goods, damaging resale value, which I really think does not apply in the slightest here). 

Would a good course of action be to state I'm sending the item back in the condition received, no worse, no better but I don't agree to the 30% charge and argue this later with them/the finance provider?

freeze

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

freeze said:

Would you query return delivery costs at this point? Or just answer their queries directly?

I've just replied reiterating I'm returning the package as I'm within the statutory 14 day, the item was tested then repackaged in the original box etc. 

See what they say to that, if they allow the return then go with it and see what what happens.

If you paid say £400 it's better to get £300 back and chase the £100 than kick up a fuss and have to chase £400 whilst being stuck with a treadmill. 

This is essentially what I was planning to do and not spend another two weeks debating with this retailer, going by previous interactions with them this probably won't get me any further. 

Could I just state that I'm returning the item but I'm not agreeing to paying them 30%? Unfortunately I need an address to return the item too. They have an address under Showroom & Head Office on their website, my fall back plan would be just to send it there (recorded delivery), on the basis they refuse to confirm a returns address? 

SteveVy

Has the OP thought about perhaps selling the item locally? Lots of people are desperate to buy fruitiness equipment and pay over the RRP