Treadmill - Distance Selling Regulations Query

freeze

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Jack_Cork said:

They way I understand it is that you can only inspect goods at home the same as you would in a shop. I dont think you'd try out a tread mill in Argos for 20 minutes, even in your socks.

You can smash the goods up with a hammer if you wish but the retailer has the option to make a deduction for any diminished value.

In order to have that privilege the retailer is required to provide the correct information regarding "the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2." 

The part the OP has in bold is incorrect for several reasons, it's 14 days beginning the day after delivery, stating the items must be unused and the packaging intact in order to qualify for the right to cancel is incorrect, the bit about delivery charges is ambiguous but "be liable for all delivery charges incurred" reads to me as if they want the buyer to be responsible for the delivery charges both ways and of course the Distance Selling Regulations were replaced by the current regs. 

If I was the OP I would answer their question honestly and see if they paint themselves into a corner by advising the OP can't cancel their contract. 

Would you query return delivery costs at this point? Or just answer their queries directly?

I've just replied reiterating I'm returning the package as I'm within the statutory 14 day, the item was tested then repackaged in the original box etc. 

freeze

Manxman_in_exile said:

This thread may be of interest:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77089661#Comment_77089661

The supplier's T&Cs said that if the rowing m/c had "been used or opened" (which we had - but it had been tried out for no more than five minutes) they would only refund a maximum of 80% of the purchase price.  My wife queried that with them and they backtracked immediately, saying that they would pay a full refund and return carriage.  Note: we had opened it and we had tried it out - but for no more than five minutes.

Fortunately we had kept the packaging but it took us between two and three hours to disassemble and re-pack it.

As a rower, my wife was of the opinion it was not fit for purpose, but for me, as a non-rower, it was a straightforward change of mind.  I'm not sure how the supplier viewed it, but we got a full refund and return carriage paid.

Thanks, seems quite a similar situation and you got exactly the outcome I'm hoping for. I suppose the main difference is Amazon was the middle man in your case, maybe this played a part in the swift action by the seller? 

mattyprice4004

I think while you may be able to force the collection for free, as it's a change of mind I'd not be morally comfortable with that given the company have done nothing wrong - and I'd want to cover such costs. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

freeze said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Jack_Cork said:

They way I understand it is that you can only inspect goods at home the same as you would in a shop. I dont think you'd try out a tread mill in Argos for 20 minutes, even in your socks.

You can smash the goods up with a hammer if you wish but the retailer has the option to make a deduction for any diminished value.

In order to have that privilege the retailer is required to provide the correct information regarding "the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2." 

The part the OP has in bold is incorrect for several reasons, it's 14 days beginning the day after delivery, stating the items must be unused and the packaging intact in order to qualify for the right to cancel is incorrect, the bit about delivery charges is ambiguous but "be liable for all delivery charges incurred" reads to me as if they want the buyer to be responsible for the delivery charges both ways and of course the Distance Selling Regulations were replaced by the current regs. 

If I was the OP I would answer their question honestly and see if they paint themselves into a corner by advising the OP can't cancel their contract. 

Would you query return delivery costs at this point? Or just answer their queries directly?

I've just replied reiterating I'm returning the package as I'm within the statutory 14 day, the item was tested then repackaged in the original box etc. 

See what they say to that, if they allow the return then go with it and see what what happens.

If you paid say £400 it's better to get £300 back and chase the £100 than kick up a fuss and have to chase £400 whilst being stuck with a treadmill. 

Manxman_in_exile

freeze said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

This thread may be of interest:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77089661#Comment_77089661

The supplier's T&Cs said that if the rowing m/c had "been used or opened" (which we had - but it had been tried out for no more than five minutes) they would only refund a maximum of 80% of the purchase price.  My wife queried that with them and they backtracked immediately, saying that they would pay a full refund and return carriage.  Note: we had opened it and we had tried it out - but for no more than five minutes.

Fortunately we had kept the packaging but it took us between two and three hours to disassemble and re-pack it.

As a rower, my wife was of the opinion it was not fit for purpose, but for me, as a non-rower, it was a straightforward change of mind.  I'm not sure how the supplier viewed it, but we got a full refund and return carriage paid.

Thanks, seems quite a similar situation and you got exactly the outcome I'm hoping for. I suppose the main difference is Amazon was the middle man in your case, maybe this played a part in the swift action by the seller? 

Apart from posting that thread, I had nothing to do with it, but I'm not sure my wife did buy it via Amazon.  And I'm pretty certain that she dealt with the supplier direct.  The supplier was quite decent throughout, but we thought they were trying it on with the

"we'll only refund a maximum of 80%", and it was interesting that they changed their mind immediately this was challenged.

I think some posters here were of the opinion that we had used it more than was necessary to try it out, but we were both of the opinion we hadn't.  If I were trying out a treadmill or rowing m/c in a shop I'd be trying it out for at least ten minutes.  In our case, my wife said pretty much immediately "This is no good".  If I'd been buying it just for myself, I'd probably have thought it was OK and kept it.  (I appreciate your case is different but there are some similarities).

Never considered mattyprice4004's point.  I think our view was that we were legally entitled to cancel/return it, and the supplier was legally responsible to pay return costs, so we let them do that.

freeze

Thanks for the advice so far, has been very useful. I took into account the various advice given and sent this back to the retailer earlier this morning: 

Hi, 

The reason I'm returning it is that I'm within the 14 day statutory period. 

Yes it has all the original packaging, it went back in the box etc the same night it was tested.  

How will the return be arranged from this point? 

Kind regards 


Which I thought was fair and to the point. I've now received the following in response from the retailer: 

Hi ###

I have looked into your purchase. You bought that treadmill through Klarna finance so there is nothing we can do from our side. The sale is between you and Klarna and has nothing to do with #company# (#assumed parent or affiliated company#).
You will need to take any queries you have up with Klarna now. 

Any questions please do not hesiate to ask. 

Kind Regards 



Is this actually correct? I used the Klarna finance option on their website as you may with any other retailer, isn't Klarna just a bank allows the retailer to provide financing options? 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I doubt it's correct, what's the website you purchased from?

Edit to add

www.klarna.com/uk/customer-service/csc/returns/

What should I do if I want to cancel my order?

If you would like to cancel your order, we ask you to contact the store where you made your purchase.

freeze

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I doubt it's correct, what's the website you purchased from?

Edit to add

www.klarna.com/uk/customer-service/csc/returns/

What should I do if I want to cancel my order?

If you would like to cancel your order, we ask you to contact the store where you made your purchase.

It was purchased from: https://fitnessequipmentni.co.uk/home/terms-conditions/ 

I'll send them a screen shot of the page from that link. Seems a bizarre response from them

Manxman_in_exile

freeze said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I doubt it's correct, what's the website you purchased from?

Edit to add

www.klarna.com/uk/customer-service/csc/returns/

What should I do if I want to cancel my order?

If you would like to cancel your order, we ask you to contact the store where you made your purchase.

It was purchased from: https://fitnessequipmentni.co.uk/home/terms-conditions/ 

I'll send them a screen shot of the page from that link. Seems a bizarre response from them

I've never heard of them and I buy a lot of fitness stuff online.  I presume they are in Northern Ireland.  They do sell to the general public do they?  What I mean is they don't do trade sales only, do they?

So long as you are cancelling within 14 days, I don't see what Klarna finance have to do with it, except you probably have a s75 claim agianst them jointly with the supplier.  Is the supplier trying to say they sold it to Klarna Finance, and you bought it from Klarna in an entirely separate arms-length transaction?  That's bo77ocks surely.

(See my next post for reasonable use etc - I can't do multi quotes)

Manxman_in_exile

Jack_Cork said:

They way I understand it is that you can only inspect goods at home the same as you would in a shop. I dont think you'd try out a tread mill in Argos for 20 minutes, even in your socks.

Obviously you can only try it out properly if there's a model on display.  If I couldn't try it out in a shop I wouldn't be buying from them in the first place.

In the case of a rowing m/c or a treadmill etc I'd be wanting to try it out in a shop for 20 minutes to half an hour, and I'd probably want to try it more than once.  If a shop doesn't want me to do that (or can't because there's no display models) then I won't be buying fom them.

If the OP has tried it at home for half an hour and decides they want to do a change of mind cancellation on an internet sale, I'd argue that 30 minutes is not "unreasonable handling" (or whatever), and that they're entitled to a full refund.