Mother-in-law and money

Pollycat

macman said:

If she has a income of £8k plus p.a. and only pays you £1K, then I suppose that you could take the long view that, unless she is spending it all, then your wife's inheritance is accumulating by an additional £7Kpa....
But £1K wouldn't have covered the costs ten or twenty years ago. Even if you are content for her to live rent-free, then your council tax and utility bills split 3 ways would cost more than that.
Does she contribute to food bills etc?

Unless she goes into care.

She would be self funding.

That would eat into the OP's wife's inheritance pretty quickly.

Relying on an inheritance - as the OP's wife appears to be - is risky.

I think £1k per annum is a very low amount for what the MIL is receiving.

The fact that she is unwilling to listen to any reasoning about costs of bills, food etc and insists £1k is paying her way would really tick me off.

However, I can see why your wife doesn't agree with you that £400 per month is reasonable.

It's a ridiculous increase.

You may have had more success of you'd suggested less.

You need to get your wife on-side and ready to have a reasonable discussion with her Mum about real costs with a realistic amount she should be paying..

thorsoak

MalMonroe said:

macman said:

If she has a income of £8k plus p.a. and only pays you £1K, then I suppose that you could take the long view that, unless she is spending it all, then your wife's inheritance is accumulating by an additional £7Kpa....
But £1K wouldn't have covered the costs ten or twenty years ago. Even if you are content for her to live rent-free, then your council tax and utility bills split 3 ways would cost more than that.
Does she contribute to food bills etc?

She won't have an income of £8k plus pa at all. I don't know where that rumour started. It'll be far less than £7k pa. And she'll have clothes and shoes to buy, birthday and Christmas gifts, toiletries etc. According to OP she doesn't contribute to food bills, no. IMO she'd be better off living alone because she'd be entitled to all the pension credits and housing benefits, etc. She'd be even wealthier then. 

Sorry - but you are incorrect.   I retired in 2005, and my pension (I am not eligible for any type of pension credit) is £713 per four weeks which works out at an annual income of £9269. 
To me, it would appear that saving from her pension is skewing her views on how much it costs to live.    You have to talk to her about the fact that there are three of you in the household, and that you should all be sharing the costs between you.   Point out that if you and your wife decide that you can no longer afford to live in your home (which has been her home too for the past 10 years) you will be looking for a one-bedroomed property which you can afford, and that she too will need to look for her own property - which will cost her a lot more than the £1,000 a year.   She won't like it, but she has to be made to see reason.
  

Sea_Shell

JamoLew said:

She should be at minimum paying her own way/share - £1000 pa is NOT enough for food on its own
Too many unknown variables - ages, income,remaining mortgage, other outgoings other family members
It's obvious that the arrangement was set-up when finances were rosy - now they aren't and you shouldn't be expected to subsidy someone who CAN afford to pay their own way/share
Honestly, if YOU can't afford to support your MiL, then maybe your wife needs to come out of retirement to help contribute

I agree about the coming out of retirement bit.   It's a simple equation.  Either MIL pays more or Wife needs to earn more.  MIL has enjoyed a "free ride" for too long...well almost free!

warby68

Your main hurdle is your wife - she should be the one asking (or actually more like telling) her own mum that things have to change, not letting you be the bad guy, burying her head and hiding behind the inheritance argument which is moot when it could go on care. MIL won't listen to you when her daughter doesn't agree.
Even if you weren't moving into hardship, mum's payment is ridiculously low.
Perhaps preparing a written breakdown of the household running costs, including some maintenance and the food bills/receipts and handing them over with the request that MIL studies them and reconsiders what she thinks is fair might be a starting point. If the costs total say £10k she will have to have some bare faced cheek to claim the £1k is 'paying her way'.
You were originally willing to subsidise her to let her have as much of her money as you could to make life pleasant - £1000 was never enough to pay her way. Now you are also entering the retirement/lower income phase, you need to rebalance things. 
I personally think where there is no great difference in wealth/ability to pay, 3 adults  sharing a home should split the bills equally or in proportion to income, not just pay the incremental costs of moving from 2 to 3 so that there is some benefit to all parties to the arrangement not just the third person.

RobM99

I wish I could pay £19 a week for everything!

Grumpy_chap

The OP has left out some quite important factors in all of this.

Is the OP's wife a single-child or are there other siblings to consider?  This will impact the way the current costs are perceived and also what may happen to any eventual inheritance that is not depleted.  It may also mean there are family considerations in any actions that are perceived to be "harsh" on the MIL (other than just MIL's feeling and wife's feelings).

With regard to the household finances, the OP explains the MIL's income (£8k/year) plus assets £80k.  The OP does not say what their position is though, simply the change:

• wife and I have been in reasonably well paid jobs 
• wife has now retired.  So presumably still gets a pension?
• I have just found out that my hours at work are being reduced so my pay will be less than half what it has been. 

Is there a mortgage on the shared house?
Are there other assets / investments in the family?
Irrespective of the MIL's contribution, what is the remaining income to Mr & Mrs OP? 

• If Mrs OP earned a "reasonable" salary, say £30k but is now on a pension of £20k and Mr OP was on £40k but now half, that still leaves £20k.  If there is no mortgage, then three people would survive quite comfortably on £40k and maybe why Mrs OP is reluctant to shake the boat.  
• Maybe Mr OP's "reasonable" salary was £250k so half is still loads, plus whatever Mrs OP get from pension plus, maybe £1m in other income-generating assets.  If the "adjustments" that Mr & Mrs OP now need to make is between Bollinger or Mumm's champagne, that is less harsh than some other choices.
• This is all speculation, though, maybe the family income is now very low and the MIL's income is affecting entitlement to benefits?

These factors all impact how reasonable or otherwise it is for Mr & Mrs OP to continue to subsidise MIL.  

That said, there is no reason why Mr & Mrs OP should subsidise MIL and, ideally, this situation would never have arisen.  BUT i sis reality and any change needs to be considerate.  If MIL has £8k income and only £1k on total household & living expenses including food, what does she spend the remainder on?  Days out, coffee chops, holidays?  Even changing the "rent" to £2k will be a big change to percentage residual spend for MIL.

Ultimately, though, MIL needs to pay more as less than £3 per day does not even cover food.

JIL

MalMonroe said:

macman said:

If she has a income of £8k plus p.a. and only pays you £1K, then I suppose that you could take the long view that, unless she is spending it all, then your wife's inheritance is accumulating by an additional £7Kpa....
But £1K wouldn't have covered the costs ten or twenty years ago. Even if you are content for her to live rent-free, then your council tax and utility bills split 3 ways would cost more than that.
Does she contribute to food bills etc?

She won't have an income of £8k plus pa at all. I don't know where that rumour started. It'll be far less than £7k pa. And she'll have clothes and shoes to buy, birthday and Christmas gifts, toiletries etc. According to OP she doesn't contribute to food bills, no. IMO she'd be better off living alone because she'd be entitled to all the pension credits and housing benefits, etc. She'd be even wealthier then. 

She would not be entitled to housing benefit and pension credit with £80,000 capital. She will also get a winter fuel allowance, whilst at her daughters so in effect it's not really £1000 per year out of her income. 
I dont think £1000 per year is nearly enough, but she is probably reasoning with herself that she brought her daughter up so it's no different.
Why did your mil come to live with you? What's the back story? 
Did she put capital into the house? 
Why does she feel that she is paying her way or more importantly why does she believe it's right to be subsidised by her family?

suki1964

It is a very difficult situation. I know as I am in it myself

Mum and dad moved in with us, they gave us 100k to put towards a house that was big enough to house them as well, which is why we have a massive house, high heating costs, high maintenance costs 

At the time, they paid half the rates, half the heating and half the electric

They bought their own meals , done their own cooking 

Dad died. Mums health has deteriorated 

Mum is very wealthy and gets his full private pension, her own private pension plus state pension. Her pensions are higher then our joint wages combined

She's now home all day every day and feels the cold

She now longer cooks for herself, she's only fit to make a simple meal like get her cereal and make a sandwich, open a tin of something so I make her meals 6 days a week ( Saturdays I will leave her something that can be microwaved or she will make a salad up )

During lockdown she gave me her card one time to get the groceries that week, not seen it since lol

I buy everything she wants, I even buy her cats food

I was furloughed for 7 weeks, husband for 10, he got 2.5k self employment grant, I got £160 a week. His grant went towards the rates, insuring his car and the electric bill. We have been living on my wages to pay everything else. My car, the broadband, my phone, the house phone, food and everything else 

During furlough the fridge freezer died, the dishwasher died, my tv in my living room died and now my vacuum has died

Mother hasn't offered us a single penny towards the dishwasher nor fridge freezer and I won't ask

Mr S is of the same mind. it infuriates him that she is so quick to say how much money she has yet refuses to part with a penny when she must realise that things are very tight with us, but as he says he won't beg

If we hadn't had mum and dad move in with us we would have had a very nice reasonable sized modern house that was cheaper in terms of rates, maintenance, heating and electric to run and we would be a lot better off

Mums 83 this year and her health is deteriorating and she's getting to the stage dad got not long before he died so I know its not going to be forever so we just carry on. 

Im also in the unfortunate position of being her executor and also named as having POA if that time comes. I say unfortunate because I have two sisters, one whom is estranged from the rest of us through her own choice. Little sister is very supportive of me as she's in the same boat with her father in law and knows mother all too well. Elder sister seems to think that we benefitted from having mum move in with us and is sure to scrutinise every bank account to the last penny when the time comes which is why I suppose I won't ask for a penny from my mum, I don't want anyone to think I have lived off her

I know none of this helps the OP, but I guess I wanted to say families are never clear cut and its so often, as an outsider, easy to say you must do this and that, when for those living in the situation, its never easy

JReacher1

At the end of the day you took the £100k to buy the bigger house. You didn’t have to do it. 

The question I suppose is whether you have to pay that £100k back when you sell the house. If you don’t then I don’t think you’ve really got that bad a deal. 

You could also sell this house now if you wished and downsize to a smaller property. 

Grumpy_chap

Suki's £100k is only provided as an example of how things change and can make it difficult.  I don't think Suki intended to create a sub-thread.

Unfortunately, the OP has not provided a back story, full financial information for the household, only half the information.