Can I sell my house with a gas safety warning notice on the boiler?

Sm2907

I'm a gas engineer, and am not just speculating, so please take note.

The flow and return valves are NOT a gas safety issue, and therefore cannot be used to deem a boiler unsafe. The boiler usually has flow and return pipe valves fitted on the underside in any case, and any additional valves do not pose a safety risk.

Regarding the flue, you're best off providing more information on the proximity to the window, ie pictures or measurements. Rule is generally that the flue terminal must be at least 30cm horizontally and vertically from any opening into the home on the same wall. However, not being so is not an automatic risk. It is down to the engineer to establish either through testing, that products of combustion are reentering the property, or that there is a likelihood of it happening. If this is not the case, then it is just deemed to be not to current standards. 

Sounds like the engineer was maybe being overzealous, or was perhaps trying to scare you into paying for more work. Obviously can't comment firmly until further information is provided. 

Sm2907

Forgot to say, merely keeping the window closed is not sufficient if there is an actual risk of products of combustion reentering the home. You would either have to have the flue amended ACCORDING TO THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS (not all allow the fitting of the plume kit to circumvent the regulations), or have the window(s) in question permanently made closed. Removing the handle is not sufficient either. 

martindow

Removing two valves and putting some sort of extension on the flue wouldn't be a major job would it?  Paying a few hundred pounds to remove an issue that could cause potential buyers from pulling out or discounting their offer price by several thousand pounds to budget for a new boiler sounds like a good investment.

Once buyers find a problem that the vendor is trying to hide, they might wonder what other faults remain to be found.

MrGumby

martindow said:

Removing two valves and putting some sort of extension on the flue wouldn't be a major job would it?  Paying a few hundred pounds to remove an issue that could cause potential buyers from pulling out or discounting their offer price by several thousand pounds to budget for a new boiler sounds like a good investment.

Once buyers find a problem that the vendor is trying to hide, they might wonder what other faults remain to be found.

Fair comment. It's time rather than money though. We were supposed to be moving on Friday. It was postponed to the coming Wednesday but that's only three days away. Apart from the difficulty of getting someone to come and do the work at short notice, we're desperately short of time ourselves to organise it. I guess we could just tell the buyers, let them gget it done, and pay the bill. The question is, does it actually need to be done? It sounds from Sm2907 as though the valves are fine but we may need to do something about the flue that presumably shouldn't have been installed like that in the first place.

robatwork

MrGumby said:

Fair comment. It's time rather than money though. We were supposed to be moving on Friday. It was postponed to the coming Wednesday but that's only three days away. Apart from the difficulty of getting someone to come and do the work at short notice, we're desperately short of time ourselves to organise it. I guess we could just tell the buyers, let them gget it done, and pay the bill. The question is, does it actually need to be done? It sounds from Sm2907 as though the valves are fine but we may need to do something about the flue that presumably shouldn't have been installed like that in the first place.

Why not get another gas engineer to inspect it? Lawful removal of the certificate is going to make things a lot easier for you even if it costs £100 for another inspection.

Jeepers_Creepers

MrGumby said:

martindow said:

Removing two valves and putting some sort of extension on the flue wouldn't be a major job would it?  Paying a few hundred pounds to remove an issue that could cause potential buyers from pulling out or discounting their offer price by several thousand pounds to budget for a new boiler sounds like a good investment.

Once buyers find a problem that the vendor is trying to hide, they might wonder what other faults remain to be found.

Fair comment. It's time rather than money though. We were supposed to be moving on Friday. It was postponed to the coming Wednesday but that's only three days away. Apart from the difficulty of getting someone to come and do the work at short notice, we're desperately short of time ourselves to organise it. I guess we could just tell the buyers, let them gget it done, and pay the bill. The question is, does it actually need to be done? It sounds from Sm2907 as though the valves are fine but we may need to do something about the flue that presumably shouldn't have been installed like that in the first place.

You don't need to get it fixed, but you really shouldn't try and pretend you are unaware of the issue. As you now say, you do intend to inform the solicitor/buyer of the situation, and that's to your credit; they can decide how to respond, either wait while you sort it, or accept it's an issue for them. (A buyer cannot expect to get their new house made 'perfect' by the seller! Some folk buy renovation projects, and a plumbing issue is the least of it...)

If you inform the buyer what the situation is, they can arrange their own inspection if they wish, tho' I think you can tell them that - as far as you understand it - the 'flue' issue should be easily sortable.

It's annoying when a GasSafe plonks an 'unsafe' sticker without telling you what's required to sort it. Could you contact them - ask what's needed and a quote for the cost?

The 'valve' issue has already been sorted, and - depending on what type of boiler you have - this may well have been essential. If it's a 'combi' with these valves just on the radiator system, then having valves there is normal - so your plumber needs a good kicking. But, if it's a 'conventional' boiler on a vented system, then having valves on the boiler's F&R could be quite explosive, so fair call.

MrGumby

greatcrested said:

Can I sell my house with a gas safety warning notice on the boiler?

Yes.

However it is likely you have already completed form TA6 (Property Information Form) which asks questions about the heating system. What did you answer? If things have changed since you provided the form, you must advise the buyer.

Many thanks. Surprisingly, no questions were asked about the heating system. So we're not breaking any laws by selling as seen. We can't get this fixed before we move in two days time. We'll tell the buyer about the issue. It seems it's only the flue location that's a problem, not the valves. It was probably legal when installed but standards have changed. So the label shouldn't have been applied. If the buyer is unhappy about it, they can have the thingie fitted, seal up the window or just live with it, as we and the previous owners have done. there's a CO alarm in the room.

Thrugelmir

MrGumby said:

greatcrested said:

Can I sell my house with a gas safety warning notice on the boiler?

Yes.

However it is likely you have already completed form TA6 (Property Information Form) which asks questions about the heating system. What did you answer? If things have changed since you provided the form, you must advise the buyer.

Many thanks. Surprisingly, no questions were asked about the heating system. So we're not breaking any laws by selling as seen. We can't get this fixed before we move in two days time. We'll tell the buyer about the issue. It seems it's only the flue location that's a problem, not the valves. It was probably legal when installed but standards have changed. So the label shouldn't have been applied. If the buyer is unhappy about it, they can have the thingie fitted, seal up the window or just live with it, as we and the previous owners have done. there's a CO alarm in the room.

Haven't you informed the buyer yet? 

MrGumby

Unicorn_cottage said:

How much were you quoted to fix?

They didn't quote. The kit is about £80 I think. We can't get it fitted before we move on Wednesday, so are just going to tell the buyers about the problem and offer them £300. They can have the kit fitted, seal the window or, as we and the previous owners did, live with it, knowing there's a CO detector in the room.

MrGumby

xylophone said:

And the flue outlet is too close to an opening window, so needs something or other on the end of it.

Why did the engineer not fit the thingummybob?

Couldn't get it and install it in time.