They helped Boris to recover, they helped 1000's to recover, a bomb has been dropped on NHS workers

Snakes_Belly

The NHS is badly managed with much waste and too many levels of management. You don't need diversity managers. It's an HR function and should form part of an HR manager's role. Procurement could be done centrally.

When it comes down to the front line staff then they should be allowed to park at no cost or pay a small monthly fee for a guaranteed space. This should apply to front line staff  specifically and medical staff that are required to work shifts.

Other staff that work office hours in administration. etc. have the option to use public transport which usually runs frequently into the hospital during the day.


  

beamerguy

Change.org have a petition about NHS parking with nearly 100,000 signatures in a couple of days.

A few minutes of your time could help scupper the money grabbers

https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-free-parking-at-work-for-all-nhs-staff?

Snakes_Belly

beamerguy said:

Change.org have a petition about NHS parking with nearly 100,000 signatures in a couple of days.

A few minutes of your time could help scupper the money grabbers

https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-free-parking-at-work-for-all-nhs-staff?

Thanks Beamer, signed.

princeofpounds

NHS staff have had free parking since what, the 25th March? I think they will cope.

People being responsible for their own transport to work is by far the norm. An employer is under no obligation to provide transport unless it is covered in the contract of employment. Everyone in the NHS would have read that document and should understand the basis on which they provide services to their employer, and they agreed to it. Sometimes it will make commercial sense for an NHS facility to offer staff parking because it would be untenable to operate otherwise, but that's a decision to make on its own merits.

Perhaps you think NHS staff are underpaid, perhaps not. But the logic that they deserve lots of little sweeteners on a permanent basis because they are popular is just plain weak. If they should be provided with parking because they need free facilitation of personal transport, why should they not be provided with cars? With fuel? With insurance? But that is not all they need - why not give them food? housing? Perhaps the state should just be responsible for providing every need?

My personal opinions? (I present them separately as they are not related to the argument above, but they may be of interest)

- Doctors are paid just fine. They benefit hugely from artificial restraints on supply caused by the de-facto quotas on medical school places, something I think should be hugely reformed.
- There are too many administrators, many of whom are filling inessential tasks - we all know it. Individually, they don't get paid a great deal, but as a group they don't provide value for money. The public sector is weak at managing this kind of bureaucratic bloat.
- Nurses don't get paid a great deal and it can be a tough job (though not in all areas). However, national pay bargaining means that those in the south are probably underpaid and those in the north are overpaid (and that goes for other roles too I suppose).
- Cleaners and porters etc. Yes they don't get paid a lot, but these are not particularly skilled jobs. They don't get paid a lot whichever industry they are in, unfortunately. 
- My family have had shoddy service from the NHS in a variety of settings - GPs, minor operations, maternity care. I won't bore you with the details (unless you ask), but really shoddy to the point of receiving official apologies. It has been poor care as often as it has been good care. I've experienced two health systems on the continent and private care in the UK and it was very different.

As for personal but more analytical opinions on the system itself:

- The current cult around the NHS is deeply damaging to proper analysis of how best to run our healthcare system. The fact is that it delivers mediocre health outcomes, but at least it delivers it at a fairly average cost (despite all the gripes about funding). 
- The study that is always trotted out that puts the NHS as 'top of the world' is by the Commonwealth Fund, a political think-tank that is dedicated to promoting the socialisation of medicine in the US. Whether you think that's a good objective or not, the study is ridiculous. It ranks systems on 5 areas weighted equally. Health outcomes - what many would think is the primary objective of a health system - is therefore only 20% of the score and there the UK comes 10th out of 11 developed countries. The only reason it ranks top are score for 'equity' and 'care process', which basically means the NHS got top marks for being an NHS, which was the political purpose of the study. Mortality amenable to healthcare - i.e. a statistical measure of how good they are at keeping people alive - was third from bottom. 
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/chart/2017/health-care-system-performance-rankings
- We would do better to look at systems that perform well. A number of continental European countries do. So do places like Singapore. They have universal access to healthcare but are not afraid to use things like insurance, co-payment, private provision of services etc. I won't go into the specific points for now.
-  We do a great disservice to ourselves by assuming that if we don't have the NHS in its current form we must end up with the US system, which is a special case of badness in many ways (it's also fantastic in some respects, but that doesn't redeem its poor features - that's one area I agree with the Commonwealth Fund on). If you are discussing the NHS with anyone and they say 'but we don't want the American system do we?', it's a sure sign they don't really know what they are talking about in any depth, but it's often used to shut down constructive criticism.
- For all the constructive criticism of the NHS, it has improved over recent years. It certainly should have done, given the epic amounts of funding being chucked at it (see the chart below). Anyone who thinks the Tories want to destroy the NHS should look at this, and realise it has been supported by governments of all stripes. Of course the burden of demand is also increasing, but even so funding is not the problem, despite the fact it's all that ever gets publicly talked about.

Finally, why have I bothered to write all this? Partly because the cultish behaviour around the NHS makes free expression very hard, and suppresses criticism in public discussion and the media. So I think it's important to get viewpoints like this out there so that people realise that this is not North Korea, and can exercise some critical thinking around what is a major area of public expenditure, and ultimately the money that government takes from all of us.

MistyZ

The PPCs have no place in hospital grounds.  

It's not just the workers who are affected.  The scene at the bus stop in the grounds of RUH Bath is apocalyptic.  When the  bus is due, a very dilapidated bunch of passengers emerge from every entrance and make their way to the bus stop, often very slowly indeed, with pins sticking out of their limbs, oxygen masks, zimmer frames, crutches etc., the average age must be way above 60.  How some of those folks stand & wait is beyond me.

For some the bus may be the transport of choice, for others it's down to lack of funds but I reckon many would be getting a lift if motorists weren't so scared of even entering the grounds, let alone waiting.

princeofpounds, whatever the issues with the NHS - and there are many - the problem which is most relevant on this forum is that the PPCs are predatory bottom feeders, they are not reasonable companies, they scam people.  NHS + PPCs is a toxic combination.   

princeofpounds

MistyZ said:

princeofpounds, whatever the issues with the NHS - and there are many - the problem which is most relevant on this forum is that the PPCs are predatory bottom feeders, they are not reasonable companies, they scam people.  NHS + PPCs is a toxic combination.   

I agree with you on that front.

Snakes_Belly

@princeofpounds .
Many NHS staff were in possession of a permit which they paid for out of their salary.  The hospital management however issued far more permits than staff spaces which resulted in staff parking (with permits) in the general car park. Staff received PCN's and many nurses ended up with large claims that they had to fight through the courts and lost.

I see that the failures in this to be with the management who should have realised that if you issue many more permits than staff spaces there is going to be an over spill into the general car park. You don't need to be that clever to work that one out.

I believe that the front line staff working unsociable hours should be allowed to park near to where they work even if they have to pay a small fee for a permit. 



    

Snakes_Belly

@princeofpounds
Too some extent I do agree with you about the cult of the NHS.  It's a broad church that are all on the same bandwagon when it comes to giveaways. 

I don't agree that nurses in the North should be paid less. They are doing the same job and taking the same risks.

D_P_Dance

I don't agree that nurses in the North should be paid less. They are doing the same job and taking the same risks.

But do not houses cost a lot less in Bolton than in Bournemouth.

beamerguy

Some valid points and we all know there are far too many chiefs in the NHS creaming off millions.
This would not happen in a commercial operation as they would go bust
I know someone who recently retired from an admin job in the NHS. When she was employed she was paid well, got a "paid for" leased car with all expenses.
Since she retired, she was asked back as a freelance. She now bills them at a much higher rate?

Like we all have to do and that is cut our cloth to suit are circumstances, the NHS don't. Government is just a phone call away ?
 If they did, they would not have to cry about car parks being maintained and delicate such expenses to the cowboys who operate the car parks who pound for pound earn much more than the NHS.  Remember the scandal that hit Cardiff a few years ago and the result was that nurses were sued and owed £1000's .... the NHS could have stopped all that and it still remains as to who "pays the ferryman" ..... It was not only the nasty legal and his "Kray twins" style mates who made a lot of money was it ???