Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd - Not Clearly Displaying a Valid Permit

HergestPhil

Have you read this

Is it applicable?  If so, have they complied?

Thanks - I've read it now!
Although the physiotherapy session I was attending was not NHS; it's private health insurance provided by my employer

HergestPhil

use other and upload the file as a pdf attachment to Popla , before the deadline , but trying for the MA or landowner cancellation in the meantime , that is the priority and yes try Regus as a starter , do not be fobbed off , be like a dog with a bone , be a Poirot , not a Clouseau

So I've sent an email to Regus, no response yet.  I will see if I can find the local MP to contact too.
It kind of feels scary that it could escalate to court, and fee increase to £100.  It seems a lot of hassle to get this squashed, and I'm wavering at paying £60 just to be shot of it.  But its the principle of the matter, I don't want them to get away with it.  There are signs, but I personally don't feel that they are clear, whilst they claim they exceed regulations.  If I had time, I'd check through regulations.  Actually the signage doesn't say how to obtain a ticket to display, only that I must display one - is that fair?
I have no evidence that there was no-one at reception.  Potentially there could have been a contact number I should have rang to request a ticket through some other mechanism?

KeithP

I will see if I can find the local MP to contact too.

It's your MP that you need to seek help from.

Of course the other MP should be interested on what's going on on his patch, so a courtesy copy to him/her would be good.

HergestPhil

Coupon-mad said:

Do I have a reasonable chance that POPLA would throw this case out? 

Yes, if you can show from your photos that there were no signs that were near the car (and no entrance sign?).

Well, when I went back this week, I looked around for signage.  It's a large business park, many buildings, several roundabouts.  There is a sign attached on a lamp post near the turning to the entrance to the car park, but angled away - it's not actually readable when turning into the car park.  I've grabbed a picture from google street view, but this is from 2018.  I'll have to go back to take a current photo, but it is the same.  If anything it is more obscured, as bushes and trees have grown up around it.
In fact, I can see cars parked on the road just by the entrance near the sign.  It is not clear where the boundary of the enforcement area lies.
It looks like in the past there was a stand-up sign next to the space i parked in, but it's not there now.
There is a sign that is near my car in the photos they have provided, but it's the other side of the walkway up to the entrance of the building flush to the wall, which I did not pass, so I did not pass this when I walked from the car to the entrance.
There is no sign on the entrance to the building.  No information to say how or where to get a permit, how much a permit costs (free).
I'll see if I can take new photos sunday (although this is now 2 weeks after the event - is that okay?).

Photos can be seen here: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GzzlmCf1ZXAiRROfVLYhKvz-btIys8BO?usp=sharing

Coupon-mad

That does look like a badly signed car park!  Get some more damning photos of all places with no signs, and the entrance with no 'P' sign in view.

PPS (london) often seem to drop out of POPLA appeals.   One might guess, they aren't very good at them - or don't prioritise them, maybe - and so if you do a decent POPLA appeal with photos (lke the examples you need to look at in the NEWBIES thread post #3) then chances are you will win.

Redx

HergestPhil said:

use other and upload the file as a pdf attachment to Popla , before the deadline , but trying for the MA or landowner cancellation in the meantime , that is the priority and yes try Regus as a starter , do not be fobbed off , be like a dog with a bone , be a Poirot , not a Clouseau

So I've sent an email to Regus, no response yet.  I will see if I can find the local MP to contact too.
It kind of feels scary that it could escalate to court, and fee increase to £100.  It seems a lot of hassle to get this squashed, and I'm wavering at paying £60 just to be shot of it.  But its the principle of the matter, I don't want them to get away with it.  There are signs, but I personally don't feel that they are clear, whilst they claim they exceed regulations.  If I had time, I'd check through regulations.  Actually the signage doesn't say how to obtain a ticket to display, only that I must display one - is that fair?
I have no evidence that there was no-one at reception.  Potentially there could have been a contact number I should have rang to request a ticket through some other mechanism?

As mentioned earlier and above , signage is probably your best popla or court argument , despite anything else we have mentioned such as no landowner authority , penalty due to breach etc

But to correct your earlier quoted post above , the charge does not increase to £100 , it is already set at £100 as will be seen on the NTK PCN and also on the abysmal signage , the £100 is the daily default tariff and is the general maximum allowed and has been for a decade or more

It has been discounted by 40% for an early settlement down to £60 , a bribe to pay it early with no dispute , no popla etc

So it's £100 discounted to £60 , not £60 increased to £100 !!  There is a difference !!

This sc#m works due to people's misconceptions and fears and preys on the weak , vulnerable and the distracted

The signage and instructions clearly fail Lord Dennings red hand rule , so look it up

HergestPhil

Regarding "No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice".

My PCN states they are authorised to manage parking charges, but does not identify who they have a contract with.  Do I need to research this to challenge that it is wrong, or just that the PPC haven't provided proof?  I can't see any proof that they comply with BPA code of practice, other than the PCN states "operating in accordance with the British Parking Association's Code of Practice".
How do I find the actual landowner authority for the place I parked?

Fruitcake

You challenge everything and put them to proof of the contrary. You say, the scammers are not the landowner and have no standing to issue charges in their own name. It's then up to the PPC to prove they do have authority.
If you don't challenge it they don't have to prove it.

The BPA CoP is available online, so compare it with the NTK and the signs to see if/where they have failed to comply.

All this is in the NEWBIES. You only need to win on one appeal point whereas the scammers need to win on every one. The more appeal points you have, the harder it is for the PPC to win.

Use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES.

Get pics of the site and signage before anything gets changed.

Redx told you how to search for the landowner's identity. Ask the council who pays the non domestic business rates, or pay a few quid to get a copy of the Land Registry entry. Personally I would only do the latter if it got to court.
You could also ask other businesses using the same car park.

Coupon-mad

Do I need to research this to challenge that it is wrong

Nope, the burden is theirs to prove, as Fruitcake rightly says. 

I wouldn't do any research about that yet.

HergestPhil

Fruitcake said:

You challenge everything and put them to proof of the contrary. You say, the scammers are not the landowner and have no standing to issue charges in their own name. It's then up to the PPC to prove they do have authority.
If you don't challenge it they don't have to prove it.

The BPA CoP is available online, so compare it with the NTK and the signs to see if/where they have failed to comply.

All this is in the NEWBIES. You only need to win on one appeal point whereas the scammers need to win on every one. The more appeal points you have, the harder it is for the PPC to win.

Use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES.

Get pics of the site and signage before anything gets changed.

Redx told you how to search for the landowner's identity. Ask the council who pays the non domestic business rates, or pay a few quid to get a copy of the Land Registry entry. Personally I would only do the latter if it got to court.
You could also ask other businesses using the same car park.

I have tried to complain to the company that owns the business that I attended.  I have written a complaint to my local MP and cc'd the MP for the constituency that I parked in.  No response down this avenue so far.
I was a bit worried about winding the POPLA reviewer up - making unsubstantiated claims.
For instance, I appealed to the PPC before I stumbled across this website, and that appeal used language that suggests that I was the driver, such as "I parked right next to the building entrance".  So it doesn't seem good idea to state there is no keeper liability.  I assume they can provide my original appeal as evidence to POPLA.  If suggesting these things makes my real argument seem less viable.
I have taken loads of pics of the approach road to the entrance, the entrance signage, the visitor parking bays, building, etc.  I recon I could write a hell of a lot about signage.  How much detail and photos should I provide in the POPLA appeal?
I've started to write it up now.  Couple of weeks left to submit the POPLA appeal.