Neon Reef - any views?

elucidate

garrehsponges said:

WillPS said:

Shedman said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

They've been told to stop taking on new customers.  They don't appear to have yet stopped, their website appears to still be keen to sign me up.

Perhaps there's an innocent explanation, that they have to post a letter to their website developer who needs to find the password to change the website, which he wrote on a scrap of paper that the dog ate or something.  Or perhaps they have no intention of stopping and are testing Ofgem's regulatory abilities, which may or (probably) may not be adequate.

I'm waiting to see Matt Allwright to ride his motorbike into their office, they appear to be that kind of company.

The suspension was in a notice in a circular put out as part of the BSC (Balancing and Settlement Code Panel, established by the Balancing and Settlement Code) ...which reads (in part) as follows

"The Panel considered this matter and, having regard to its objectives under Section B1.2.1 and to its other obligations under the BSC, resolved as follows:

(a)  Pursuant to Sections H3.2.1(b) and H3.2.2(e), to suspend, subject to approval by the Authority, the right of the Defaulting Party to register any Metering Systems and further register any BM Units."

 Link to full notice https://elexonexternal.newsweaver.com/924j6pkkru/1p2v1th2e9h

So maybe until the Authority (being the Gas and electricity Markets Authority established by section 1(1) of the Utilities Act 2000) actually approves this suspension they are OK to keep taking on new customers until that approval is made?  I think Ofgem act on behalf of the GEMA so I guess it's in Ofgems court to get the approval passed? I presume there will be a notice on Ofgems site tomorrow.

Odd though that the other supplier (Orbit Energy) that was also subject to a similar notice do seem to have stop taking on new customers.

Reckon next week's the week NR finally goes t*ts up I fear

If the only thing perpetuating NR's ability to survive is their ability to take on customers on to loss making tariffs with front loaded payments... being generous, it's goal hanging with a minute chance of scoring (i.e. wholesale rates dropping through the floor and all those tariffs suddenly becoming profitable) - alternatively it is extremely sharp practice, and if any payments are going to directors in the last few weeks then I hope the full force of the law comes down on them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but according to https://www.catalyst-commercial.co.uk/works/november-2021-energy-market-brief/ the current wholesale prices of electric is around £117 MWh, so around 11p KWh. Neon Reef are selling at 17.5p KWh on the fixed rate Neptune v3 tarrif.

This is true of all suppliers even on variable rate capped tarrifs - they appear to be able to charge above the wholesale prices.

So why are companies struggling so much?

In terms of Neon Reef, they get most of their electric from green sources and only sell electric tariffs. You would hope they are in a better position than most energy firms to ride through this tougher market period.

If only it were that simple. Have a look at this for a more well-rounded overview of overheads:
https://octopus.energy/tracker-demo-detail/?context=1&code=E-1R-SILVER-2017-1-C&consumption=2900&type=electricity&inapp=false

ivanleo

garrehsponges said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but according to https://www.catalyst-commercial.co.uk/works/november-2021-energy-market-brief/ the current wholesale prices of electric is around £117 MWh, so around 11p KWh. Neon Reef are selling at 17.5p KWh on the fixed rate Neptune v3 tarrif.

As of right now (12:30 to 1 pm on 8 November 2021) the wholesale price is £214.83 per MWh according to https://electricinsights.co.uk/#/homepage?&_k=3w2rr5 though it was down to £112.50 half an hour ago if you look on the chart here https://electricinsights.co.uk/#/dashboard?_k=pxp7kl

Someone on here might be able to confirm but I'm guessing retail suppliers pay based on the average consumption for each half hour slot in each region, apportioned to the number of customers they have on supply in that region, as obviously domestic power meters don't allow for half-hour tracking of consumption.

The problem is that at 5:03 this morning NR was making a profit as the price dropped to £105 per MWh, but it wouldn't have been a very big profit as consumption at the time was very low (23.92 GW), while right now they'll be making a large loss as demand is just under 37 GW.

Of course that is just the spot price, none of us know if NR had bought electricity in advance for delivery over November 2021.

To an extent NR must be banking on the extra 33% on the DDs being enough to see them through till wholesale prices come down.

WillPS

garrehsponges said:

WillPS said:

Shedman said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

They've been told to stop taking on new customers.  They don't appear to have yet stopped, their website appears to still be keen to sign me up.

Perhaps there's an innocent explanation, that they have to post a letter to their website developer who needs to find the password to change the website, which he wrote on a scrap of paper that the dog ate or something.  Or perhaps they have no intention of stopping and are testing Ofgem's regulatory abilities, which may or (probably) may not be adequate.

I'm waiting to see Matt Allwright to ride his motorbike into their office, they appear to be that kind of company.

The suspension was in a notice in a circular put out as part of the BSC (Balancing and Settlement Code Panel, established by the Balancing and Settlement Code) ...which reads (in part) as follows

"The Panel considered this matter and, having regard to its objectives under Section B1.2.1 and to its other obligations under the BSC, resolved as follows:

(a)  Pursuant to Sections H3.2.1(b) and H3.2.2(e), to suspend, subject to approval by the Authority, the right of the Defaulting Party to register any Metering Systems and further register any BM Units."

 Link to full notice https://elexonexternal.newsweaver.com/924j6pkkru/1p2v1th2e9h

So maybe until the Authority (being the Gas and electricity Markets Authority established by section 1(1) of the Utilities Act 2000) actually approves this suspension they are OK to keep taking on new customers until that approval is made?  I think Ofgem act on behalf of the GEMA so I guess it's in Ofgems court to get the approval passed? I presume there will be a notice on Ofgems site tomorrow.

Odd though that the other supplier (Orbit Energy) that was also subject to a similar notice do seem to have stop taking on new customers.

Reckon next week's the week NR finally goes t*ts up I fear

If the only thing perpetuating NR's ability to survive is their ability to take on customers on to loss making tariffs with front loaded payments... being generous, it's goal hanging with a minute chance of scoring (i.e. wholesale rates dropping through the floor and all those tariffs suddenly becoming profitable) - alternatively it is extremely sharp practice, and if any payments are going to directors in the last few weeks then I hope the full force of the law comes down on them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but according to https://www.catalyst-commercial.co.uk/works/november-2021-energy-market-brief/ the current wholesale prices of electric is around £117 MWh, so around 11p KWh. Neon Reef are selling at 17.5p KWh on the fixed rate Neptune v3 tarrif.

This is true of all suppliers even on variable rate capped tarrifs - they appear to be able to charge above the wholesale prices.

So why are companies struggling so much?

In terms of Neon Reef, they get most of their electric from green sources and only sell electric tariffs. You would hope they are in a better position than most energy firms to ride through this tougher market period.

As others have pointed out, the rate you are seeing there is a snapshot. For those with 'dumb' meters it'll be entirely irrelevant because Neon Reef does not know when the unit was actually used - I imagine that it is calculated as a weighted average throughout the day (so when the price is low or even negative, that applies proportionate to the load at that particular time which will be much lower than when the load and price) is high.

Even for customers with smart meters, unless they are on some kind of agile tariff (which Neon Reef don't offer) they are likely to be using the majority of their energy when the load and price is highest. The only scenario Neon Reef can win on there is a customer who has an enabled smart meter and uses energy mostly at times when the price is low.

Realised the crossed out above isn't true either because Neon Reef don't do smart meters (they're dumb on Neon Reef).

ViperBugloss

I joined on September 17 and supplied meter readings on October 17 on Neon Reef's request. (I have also supplied other readings). I have just checked my account (again) to see if they had provided a bill and I have just realised that Neon Reef are showing estimated readings for when I joined that are wildly different to the actual readings that I supplied. I understand that there may be some adjustment of a few units but I am talking large discrepancies. I am on Economy 7 and, apparently, on the moment of joining, Neon Reef immediately supplied me with 1600kWh of day electricity (at a cost of £311.35) and I supplied them with 1078kWh of night electricity (at a cost of £156.08). This gives a cost discrepancy in their favour of £155.27. I have immediately raised a complaint with Neon Reef but I cannot go to the Energy Ombudsman until 3 January 2022, provided that they have not ceased trading.

EssexHebridean

Does it by any chance marry up that the readings have been entered the wrong way round at one end or the other? So rate 1 as rate 2, and vice versa? We had that happen with a new supplier a few years ago - I think it may even have been the start of the debacle with Scottish Power in fact -what I gave them was correct but the readings were entered the wrong way round at their end because the person who entered them thought *I* had it wrong.... anyway it proved a bit of a nightmare to sort out, so best nipped in the bud ASAP if that IS what has happened. 

Gerry1

ViperBugloss said:

Neon Reef are showing estimated readings for when I joined that are wildly different to the actual readings that I supplied.

Might be down to The Mysterious Third Party?

OldScientist

For those worried upthread about a lack of a bill, they do appear to be issuing bills - just had my first one (been a customer since the beginning of October).

ViperBugloss

Gerry1 said:

ViperBugloss said:

Neon Reef are showing estimated readings for when I joined that are wildly different to the actual readings that I supplied.

Might be down to The Mysterious Third Party?

If it is down to the open reading validation process (aka "The Mysterious Third Party") then they have got their calculations badly wrong. Since 2012, I have taken my meter readings every Sunday and recorded them on a spread sheet, so I have evidence that the calculations are wrong but to whom do I present this evidence. I have to wait until 3 January 2022 to raise it with the Energy Ombudsman and will Neon Reef still be in business at that time? 

ViperBugloss

EssexHebridean said:

Does it by any chance marry up that the readings have been entered the wrong way round at one end or the other? So rate 1 as rate 2, and vice versa? We had that happen with a new supplier a few years ago - I think it may even have been the start of the debacle with Scottish Power in fact -what I gave them was correct but the readings were entered the wrong way round at their end because the person who entered them thought *I* had it wrong.... anyway it proved a bit of a nightmare to sort out, so best nipped in the bud ASAP if that IS what has happened. 

That was the first thing that I checked but it is not the case. It could be down to the open reading validation process (aka "The Mysterious Third Party") that Gerry1 mentioned.

Farway

ViperBugloss said:

Gerry1 said:

ViperBugloss said:

Neon Reef are showing estimated readings for when I joined that are wildly different to the actual readings that I supplied.

Might be down to The Mysterious Third Party?

If it is down to the open reading validation process (aka "The Mysterious Third Party") then they have got their calculations badly wrong. Since 2012, I have taken my meter readings every Sunday and recorded them on a spread sheet, so I have evidence that the calculations are wrong but to whom do I present this evidence. I have to wait until 3 January 2022 to raise it with the Energy Ombudsman and will Neon Reef still be in business at that time? 

Just in case it gets that far may I suggest if you are not already doing so to take a photo of the readings at the same time