Parking Eye LBCCC will we go to Court?

millie67_2

Hi all, I am posting in the hope that somebody may be able to further advise me as to what my options are and what might be the next steps in my ongoing battle with a PCN received from Parking Eye in January. I have been following posts on here and reacting in the way I have understood experienced posters have advised - I've read hours and hours of advice on here for which I am very grateful but I feel now nothing I have done seems to be working.  Here is a summary of what has happened so far...
Early Jan 2020 - PCN in the post, my car overstayed a free 30 minute parking allowance by 17 minutes at 11pm on a Sunday night.  I was not the driver.  I replied immediately stating I was not the driver and do not accept liability, stated mitigating circumstances (driver had been informed he could park there free for 30 mins and had intended being 5 mins when there was a domestic incident which meant he was unavoidably detained)  In addition, the signage at the entrance was not lit and impossible to read and as the driver drove in turned left and parked, all other signs explaining the penalty for overstaying etc were not visible to him.  Finally, I stressed the fact that this was a totally unavoidable overstay and I felt the penalty they were trying to enforce was unreasonable and extortionate especially given that the car park was empty due to it being almost midnight on a Sunday night and over the Christmas period.
Later in Jan 2020 - Letter from PE stating appeal unsuccessful, pay now or go to POPLA
I appealed to POPLA, I was confused and thought that as my original appeal (stressing the domestic incident) had been rejected I now had to try and add additional reasons that I felt the penalty should be cancelled.  I therefore did more research and my main points were: Total overstay 17 minutes - if awarded the grace period before and after parking that could account for this amount of time (I had read it was 10 minutes either side but think I might have been wrong?) it was also icy so before leaving the driver would have to de-ice the car and warm it up in order to safely drive it away.  Signage is inadequate when it is dark I added a photograph after visiting the car park myself late one night. My assumption had been that POPLA would look at the original evidence I had submitted plus these additional points and make a judgement.  Unfortunately their response was to say that as I had not made reference in that appeal to the mitigating circumstances the driver had experienced they could not consider that part of the appeal and the other reasons I had put were not good enough as the driver already knew there was a 30 minute free parking period.  POPLA upheld PE decision.
Early May - LBCCC received from PE.  I scoured the forums for advice again and found a similar sounding case where advice given was that, at this stage, if you do not want to go to Court, name the driver and then PE are forced to start the whole process again.  I thought this might be the best course of action as then the driver could really explain everything that had happened in detail and along with the fact that the car park was empty and it was late etc etc he may be looked upon more favourably if not by PE but by POPLA - given the opportunity to fully explain the circumstances to them...
Early June - Generic?? letter received from PE stating they acknowledge that I still dispute the charge but the fee of £100 remains and needs to paid within 14 days to prevent further action.
I again replied asking if they had even read my letter naming the driver, I was under the impression they now had to pursue him etc.  I also emailed the enforcement team naming the driver and stating that I had received another letter ignoring the fact that they now had the contact details for the driver and stating but they were continuing with action.
End of June - email from the enforcement team claiming that as I did not name the driver within 28 days of the PCN they were not interested and would continue to pursue me, pay within 14 days to prevent further action.
By now I am exhausted with it all!  I have spent hours and hours trying to research and argue etc.  How likely is it that they will actually continue with the Court action??  Rightly or wrongly I have now emailed them back offering payment of £15 - possible the wrong thing to do?  I would welcome your view on this and any advice on what is best to do to avoid actually having to go to Court - I don't want to but feel so strongly about how unfair this penalty is with all the circumstances taken into account :-(
I should add that after lots of research and emails I discovered who owned the car park and have emailed them 3 times asking for assistance but they have ignored my emails.
Thank you for reading :-)

Fruitcake

It is not a penalty.

Parking Lie will not be interested in an offer of £15.

Grace periods were reduced this year following the introduction of a new CoP.

PoPLA will only consider what is in the appeal, not what happened before.

Has a court claim been received, or only a LBC so far? If a court claim has been started then naming the driver won't help. If you are still at LBC stage and a claim has not yet been given, then you should complain to the BPA. Quote the relevant part of the PoFA relating to this, and the comment from the scammers that they required the driver's information within 28 days of the PCN, which is outwith the PoFA and an unfair contract term in breach of the Consumer Rights Act.
Do you have proof the driver's identity was given at LBC stage? If so, include that in your complaint.

From Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012

"5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but

(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

(2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper."

I believe the man on the Clapham Omnibus would believe the word "proceedings" would generally mean court proceedings, not debt recovery since at this stage there is no proven debt.

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

Please hit the enter key a few times and break up your difficult to read wall of text. 

millie67_2

Thank you for replying Fruitcake (apologies for the 'wall of text' it looks different when I type!)

I can prove that I responded to the LBCCC by naming the driver - PE's reply to me naming the driver started with "We note in your reply to our Letter Before Claim..."

Apart from that reply which didn't even acknowledge the fact that I had named the driver, I have only received one more letter from them since the LBCCC and that was again responding to my letter stating they have not addressed the fact that I named the driver and looked like a generic reply so I am assuming that a Court Claim has not been issued - would that be another letter stating that it is a Court Claim??

I haven't contacted the local MP the incident was in another town so I will find out who that person is and send a letter.  ALso, funnily enough I have this morning received a reply from the company I had been informed owned the land, it just says "we do not own this land"!!  I am therefore back to square one with trying to find out who does!

Does every case automatically proceed to Court at this stage or have they been known to halt proceedings??

Thanks again for the advice 

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Fruitcake

Parking Lie are very litigious, but it will depend entirely on what is in their contract with the landowner. If the contract does not permit the scammers to issue a court claim, then there cannot be a court claim issued, but the scammers won't tell you. If the contract does allow court claims, then with parking lie, it will happen unless you can get a landowner cancellation.

Ask the council who pays the non-domestic business rates. This may be on the council website already, and it will give you an idea about who owns the land.
For a definitive answer you would need to pay a few quid for a Land Registry entry.

You will need to contact your MP, but you can send a curtesy copy to the MP where the alleged event took place pointing out the damage it is doing to businesses in her/his area by discouraging people like you from ever going there again.

Do complain to the BPA asap.

Most court claims come from the business clearing centre in Northampton, although they could in rare cases come from somewhere else. There is a very detailed guide to court in the second post of the NEWBIES that explains the whole process.

Please tell us the location where this happened as someone here may have information about it. 

D_P_Dance

Their signs are not up to snuff imo, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-readingsome judges have 

some judges will throw out their claims due to this.

millie67_2

Thank you both for your advice.  I have emailed the local MP just now.  I have also had another response from the company I thought was the owner of the car park (Green Close Lane car park in Loughborough) they have said they emailed the owner on my behalf, he lives abroad and has replied to them saying he will not get involved.
I will complain to the BPA next and then I guess I wait to see what arrives from Parking Eye after my last email...

Thanks again

D_P_Dance

...  he lives abroad and has replied to them saying he will not get involved.

If his name is on the contract he might have little choice if you add his name to a counter claim against the PPC.

Fruitcake

millie67_2 said:

Thank you both for your advice.  I have emailed the local MP just now.  I have also had another response from the company I thought was the owner of the car park (Green Close Lane car park in Loughborough) they have said they emailed the owner on my behalf, he lives abroad and has replied to them saying he will not get involved.
I will complain to the BPA next and then I guess I wait to see what arrives from Parking Eye after my last email...

Thanks again

Do you know the identity of the landowner? Often the scammers have a contract with a managing agent not the landowner themselves, so the scammers need to prove the landowner has a contract with the MA allowing them to employ the scammers.

D_P_Dance

If there is a management company, (not commercial agents), have you contacted them?  

millie67_2

I don't know his details but will email the other company back and ask them if they will be willing to provide me with them so that I can contact him myself... failing that I guess I will have to contact the council.

Just for clarification, I have found the online form to compete for complaining to BPA re Parking Eye, it has a drop down menu, am I complaining that they have refused to drop the action against me and pursue the driver as I named him in response to the LBCCC?  Sorry if I'm coming across a bit dim lol I am getting fed up of thinking about it all to be honest but am just adamant I want to fight them!