PCN Issued but Reg No Was Entered in Machine In Store - Newhall Walk Car Park, Sutton Coldfield

ianp_1977

Hi all,

I am just hoping to get a bit of advice of possible please.

My mother parked in a shopping car park in February this year and a few weeks later received a Parking Charge Notice through the post saying that she had not paid for parking.  My mother was in one of the shops and was therefore eligible for free parking (her total stay was 1 hour and 2 minutes and anyone spending £10 in the store gets 3 hours free).  She entered her registration number into the touch screen in store and received a confirmation message saying £0.00 to pay and thanking her for parking at Newhall Walk.  The registration must have been correct as the machines get you to manually enter your time of entry if it does not recognise the reg number but this did not happen. 

We have appealed to the Parking Operator and they have predictably said that they are unwilling to do anything and she must pay £100.  They went quiet for a while after our last reply but they have now sent a further letter saying that they now want £160.  My mother is 73 years old and registered disabled due to mobility difficulties so is really getting upset by the letters she is receiving but the parking company are not willing to accept that she did enter her registration number.  My mother had her niece with her at the time and she remembers her entering the number on the screen as well.  

I have been into the store in question and they have advised that this happens a lot but they are unable to do anything as they don't operate the car park.  

I am a little unsure how to proceed with this as my mother does not have the money to pay the fine (and we do not have the money to pay it for her), but don't want this to drag on and keep upsetting her each time they chase her for the money.

I am just wondering if there is anything we can do - the machines in the store do not have a facility to print out proof that you have validated your parking (no receipts etc.) so I was wondering if this is something they are required to provide as without a printed receipt from the machine she is relying upon the technology to work correctly and clearly on this occasion there must have been an issue between her entering the reg number on the screen and it not being transferred to the PCN database.  Obviously this is difficult to prove but I am not sure what to do next to try to resolve this and if the machine had printed a receipt she would have been able to prove that she did validate the parking.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time reading this.

Ian

Umkomaas

Why not tell us which parking firm, then we have the important bit of information. 

My mother is 73 years old and registered disabled

There's no such register. What exactly do you mean?

Redx

A complaint to the landowner or their agent is always the best option , plan A of the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum , citing the Equality Act 2010

The ability to pay or not is irrelevant , even homeless people with no job get fined for breaking rules or laws

As mentioned above , there is no register of disabled People , there used to be decades ago where you obtained a green registration card from the DWP , phased out many , many years ago , I still have mine !!

Name of the parking company ??

Name of the store ?

Location of the store or retail park ?

if its the same as 2 years ago then its still breaking the BPA rules and possibly dvla rules as seen in this thread from 2 years ago

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5834422/newhall-walk-parking-sutton-coldfield-tangled-web

the signs were bad and incorrect, they are still not listed on the BPA AOS list and the website is poor , no DPO contact details etc

also complaints on tripadvisor too

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g190731-d1012813-r745253567-Fridays_Sutton_Coldfield-The_Royal_Town_of_Sutton_Coldfield_West_Midlands_Englan.html

I think a request should be made by the RK to the DVLA to find out who accessed her details for this, what day and time , on what legal grounds ?

possibly a manual request ? I doubt it was by KADOE

ianp_1977

Hi Umkomaas and Redx,

Thanks for replying so quickly.

I apologise for the incorrect terminology regarding the "registered disabled" term.  What I meant was that my mother is confirmed as being disabled and is in receipt of Disability Living Allowance at the Higher Rate for Mobility and drives a Motability car, along with having Blue Badges.

The parking firm that sent the PCN is Excel Parking Services Limited so I am not sure if that is different from the operators at the time of the appeal on the post that Redx linked to as that looks like a completely different company?

The store is B&M.  There is also an Aldi, TK Maxx and TGI Fridays that all allow their guests to park there for free, but she was only in B&M on the day the PCN was issued.

The Location is Newhall Walk Car Park, Queen Street, Sutton Coldfield, B72 1RX

Please let me know if you need any further information of if anything else is unclear.

Thanks again for the speedy responses which are very much appreciated.

Ian

Redx

ok , so Excel are in the IPC so no chance of a popla appeal or a BPA complaint, hence why we asked

the links I gave showed the agents or landowners a couple of years ago, so maybe complain to them about it ?

Excel wont give an inch and wont care about it, especially if they rejected any appeal

the only chance of getting this quashed is a landowner complaint , citing the EQUALITY ACT 2010 which she is qualified under, hence the BB and the Motability vehicle, they are both indicators of the fact that the EA2010 is in force here , never mind the DWP letters that have allowed her mobility claim (DLA or more likely its PIP now because DLA was being phased out and replaced by PIP, so sorry to say I disbelieve your DLA assertion) , the BB is issued by the local council and is another indicator of eligibility under the EA2010

you may have gathered by now that the EA2010 is a major factor here , so she must milk it , you write the letters, or emails , she signs them , you do the work, she must sign the complaints, unless you have power of attorney ? (which I doubt that you do)

ianp_1977

This is a picture of the newer signs at the car park - not sure if this helps?

Redx

that sign says the following

NORMAL PARKING TARIFF APPLIES to Blue Badge Holders

THIS WOULD ALSO BE DEPENDENT ON FOLLOWING THE RULES INCLUDING CORRECT VRM ENTRY

A SAR will find out what the actual issue is or was

non payment ?

incorrect VRM entry ?

Underpayment ?

if a payment was made , did she register for extra time and use the correct VRM details ? not jumbled up etc ?

the EA2010 says reasonable adjustments should be made, so what did the store or the parking company allow ?

councils usually give say an extra hour free for disabled people for example

getting to the bottom of the issue with the signage, what she did do , what she didnt do , is crucial

but the solution is a landowner cancellation due to the EA2010, that will stop a court case from happening in the future, Excel have 6 years to try a court case (where the RK can counter claim under the EA2010 for example)

Redx

ianp_1977 said:

My mother parked in a shopping car park in February this year and a few weeks later received a Parking Charge Notice through the post saying that she had not paid for parking. 

My mother was in one of the shops and was therefore eligible for free parking (her total stay was 1 hour and 2 minutes and anyone spending £10 in the store gets 3 hours free). 

She entered her registration number into the touch screen in store and received a confirmation message saying £0.00 to pay and thanking her for parking at Newhall Walk.  The registration must have been correct as the machines get you to manually enter your time of entry if it does not recognise the reg number but this did not happen. 

Ian

does the NEW sign actually say this, I cannot see that information , but I think it was on the old signs I linked

ianp_1977

Thanks Redx.

I have been writing the correspondence so far and getting her to sign them but felt like no matter what I said I was unlikely to get anywhere with this seeing their initial rejection of the appeal.

She keeps saying she would understand if she hadn't put her number in the machine but she is adamant that she did and my niece was with her at the time and confirmed that it definitely validated the registration on the in store touch screen but as I mentioned, it doesn't give a receipt.

So, in terms of the Equality Act, do I just write to Excel Parking AND the land owners and say that the fine should cancelled due to the disability and the fact that this is covered by the Equality Act or do we need to specifically explain how/why the act should be applied?  Apologies, I am not familiar with the legislation or how it applies in this instance so just don't want to say the wrong thing if there is a chance it could help get the ticket cancelled.  Her claim is still classed as DLA as she is 73 and was told that she wouldn't be moved to PIP (well, at least she hasn't been moved across yet - I guess that could change in the not too distant future).

Thanks again Redx, I really do appreciate the advice.

Redx

of course they are intransigent and obtuse, they just want the money !!!

as I wrote above, I cannot see the info on the sign that validates your story about the exemptions , perhaps Excel arent aware of that on their systems because it went elsewhere previously

knowing what went wrong and why is key here, knowing what the signs actually say , outside and instore etc , the signs seem to indicate that the landowner or agents deal with fees , Excel are contracted for the parking and that sign says normal parking charges apply

if it has changed recently as we seem to think , then that exemption procedure seems flawed to me and needs bringing up with the landowners as a point of order that targets the weak and vulnerable

which part of getting a LANDOWNER cancellation due to the EA2010 was I not clear on ? (Excel wont care)

that legislation has been in force for ten years , the DDA back to 1995 before it, so your mum has been covered for a long time if the Motability contracts last 3 years and DLA goes back some twenty or more years probably , definitely more than 15 years anyway although it should have been phased out by now and she should have had to reapply for PIP to continue getting a mobility allowance and vehicle (mine was rejected a few years ago now)

ianp_1977

Sorry, my last reply crossed while you were sending yours.

The PCN was issued due to not validating or paying for the parking.

There are signs in the car park that do say that 3 hours free parking is allowed when using the business listed above, including B&M.  Excel have validation touch screens in all the stores so you can enter your registration to validate the parking.  They are saying she didn't enter her reg no at the terminal or pay for the parking.  She is adamant that she did and my niece confirmed this.  If the incorrect reg number is entered (or if it hasn't piked up your car on entry) then the screen asks you to confirm what time you entered the car park on the screen - she said that after entering her number it went straight to the confirmation screen which said fee due: £0.00 thank you for parking at Newhall Walk Car Park.  As mentioned, these are just touch screen devices which don't print receipts so she has nothing to prove this other than my niece confirming it.

I did ask them to provide a list of all Reg Numbers entered around the time in question, including any unmatched/partial ones but they only provided the ones for the external cash/voucher/card pay stations, not the in store ones and dd not provide me with the partial/unmatched ones - they just said that none of them were similar to her car reg no.

So in summary, she went into B&M, did her shopping, paid, entered her reg no. into the in store validation screen, the machine confirmed her parking was validated and she then left the car park within a few minutes.  

Not sure if any of that helps?