MSE has closed the Money Saving Arms.

Sapphire

JohnTeapot said:

Sapphire said:

peachyprice said:

Pyxis said:

peachyprice said:

Ageing_Disgracefully said:

colinw said:

It is a bit shocking really to cut off a online community at this time especially, it might be the only contact some shielded people have with people

This is the big concern and I feel sorry for those who have suddenly lost the one bit of contact that have with others.

Sadly, there was one particular poster with more than one AE who was reporting every post that they didn't agree with and causing huge problems for the mods.  Ban one AE and another was added.  That person should be seriously ashamed of the harm that they have caused to a small number of people who it was clear relied on the forum.

I said, several times, that the aim of that member was to create discord and division in order to get the board closed altogether, and here we are.

That may be true, but if people refuse to rise to the bait, it wouldn't succeed in creating discord, would it?
A bit more biting of lip or shrugging of shoulder would have prevented the problem, but so many people seemed to feel they had to have the last word.

It was getting to the point where 'new' users were outnumbering regulars, posting nonsense thread after thread, making sure meaningful threads fell off the first page, which in turn due to a glitch meant they were inaccessible, leaving only the nonsense threads to comment on.

I had so many profiles on 'ignore' recently it made threads hard to follow with chunks of conversation missing. 

Yes, I agree. The threads were OK for a long while (even if people's opinions differed), but it seemed that recently newbies (or 'newbies) kept signing on with the sole intent of disrupting the threads with attempts at politically motivated propaganda, and that they deliberately set out to provoke people. It's only since the boards were redesigned that I noticed this, and it is only since then that I started putting people on ignore.

I agree that MSE had no choice but to close the Arms, even though there were some threads that were useful/fun. The Covid data threads were good (where they didn't degenerate into politically motivated sniping), as were a few threads about people's experiences during the crisis, and funny pictures of cats, Marisco (and others), etc. There's still a chance to post things like this on the third thread down when you open up the forum (so to speak, can't remember the title of the thread) … 😺

A discussion forum is just that a forum for discussion, you have to be tolerant of others, nothing upsets me because I am a tolerant person. I'd never ban anyone if I ran a forum but it seems there are a lot of intolerant people about.

I think it is sad that initially the internet was a great place for free speech and has now have became the opposite, censorship everywhere, people banned for life for expressing an opinion.

That's exactly what it used to be – a discussion forum – rather than an echo chamber for the likes of 'clueless'-type posts, and those obviously aiming to achieve disruption.

I agree that initially the Internet was much better than it is today. I don't think people have been 'banned for life for expressing an opinion' on MSE. They have, however, been banned for general rudeness and deliberately goading others. There is a limit to 'tolerance' of such behaviour. I am not sure where the people who were responsible for disruptive posts came from – they seem to have appeared rather suddenly and very noticeably …

203846930

"I don't think people have been 'banned for life for expressing an opinion' on MSE."


How many names would you like?

Virtually every AE that people on this thread have complained about have been banned for life for expressing an opinion and so many others have been banned for life for even less of an outrage.

Tigsteroonie

sweetsand said:

END

I hope that your shout of 'end' signifies the end of your input on this matter.

If you think shouting 'end' means that others will stop discussing the matter, you are sadly mistaken.

RyanHello

PC gone mad

peachyprice

JohnTeapot said:

peachyprice said:

duncanthedog said:

_shel said:

peachyprice said:

That was the problem though, it wasn't 'us' who ruined it, it was one or two disgruntled banned members coming back time and time again, posting nonsense/offensive/divisive the reads with the sole purpose of forcing MSE's hand into closing the Arms. The worst thing MSE did was post that threat, it was taken as a challenge. 

It's not difficult to work out who these people are, it doesn't take long for them to revert to their normal writing style once they're in. One even boasted that as they were using a VPN there was nothing MSE could do to stop them. It was sabotage pure and simple and the same disrupters will now follow MSE members over to attempt to do the same on Digital Spy. Hopefully DS has more robust protocols. 

 They may well have been banned members posting those threads but many other regular posters joined in the nonsense, offensive threads when they could've ignored them. 

Very much this^^^^
It was not how returning AE's behaved and posted, it was how the regulars interacted with them.
I was guilty of getting drawn in to daft conversations and paid the price so then just ignored any thread started by a suspected AE, if only others had done the same.

Very true, more than once I replied to a thread then deleted it when I realised it had been posted by a 'newbie',  to find later on that it had descended into a bun fight. 

What have you got against new posters? Without them a forum dies.

There is a difference between new posters and "new" posters. Discussion Time has had a problem with members who have been banned for various reasons returning under different user names to continue causing trouble, hence my reference to "newbies" not newbies. 

waamo

I see the powers that be have put a statement out this afternoon https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6160122/money-savers-arms-statement#latest

It looks rather familiar and is only several days after the event.

Algorfa

peachyprice said:

That was the problem though, it wasn't 'us' who ruined it, it was one or two disgruntled banned members coming back time and time again, posting nonsense/offensive/divisive the reads with the sole purpose of forcing MSE's hand into closing the Arms. The worst thing MSE did was post that threat, it was taken as a challenge. 

It's not difficult to work out who these people are, it doesn't take long for them to revert to their normal writing style once they're in, halfway through a thread there's that light bulb moment of 'I know who you are'.  One even boasted that as they were using a VPN there was nothing MSE could do to stop them. It was sabotage pure and simple and the same disrupters will now follow MSE members over to attempt to do the same on Digital Spy. Hopefully DS has more robust protocols. 

There were a few problems with the forum that have developed over the last 5 years or so.  Before that it could be a bit feisty but generally functioned quite well.  There were some classic threads that could go off at various tangents for 1000 posts or so but even then the arguments wrre generally ok.  The moderation was a lot fairer then too, and - unlike recently - unbiased in what was deemed acceptable..

The forum went downhill when the right wingers took over.  Quite a few were aggressive, espcially to new posters, and discussion disappeared.  As befits the new UK, some were quite happy to post racist stuff which was poorly moderated.   The small number of people who kept returning week after week to post offensive one liners didn't help.  I have at least 5 names in my ignore list that are all the same person posting the same drivel.

The other major factor that killed the forum was the dreadful new format. It looks like it was cobbled together by a 12-y-o.  It drove many away as they couldn't get back in unless under a new name so we seemed to end up with some sort of wierd BoJo fan club.  I think the forum has run its course and the site was probably right to put it out of its misery. 

I may join the new site but I think it should be approached as a new place, not MSE2. I had a look and all the names seem familiar. Let's hope it is an improvement, although there have been new sites before and they tend to fizzle out after a while.  At least the format looks ok, it's exactly the same as a sports forum I use.

Sapphire

Algorfa said:

peachyprice said:

That was the problem though, it wasn't 'us' who ruined it, it was one or two disgruntled banned members coming back time and time again, posting nonsense/offensive/divisive the reads with the sole purpose of forcing MSE's hand into closing the Arms. The worst thing MSE did was post that threat, it was taken as a challenge. 

It's not difficult to work out who these people are, it doesn't take long for them to revert to their normal writing style once they're in, halfway through a thread there's that light bulb moment of 'I know who you are'.  One even boasted that as they were using a VPN there was nothing MSE could do to stop them. It was sabotage pure and simple and the same disrupters will now follow MSE members over to attempt to do the same on Digital Spy. Hopefully DS has more robust protocols. 

The forum went downhill when the right wingers took over.  Quite a few were aggressive, espcially to new posters, and discussion disappeared.  As befits the new UK, some were quite happy to post racist stuff which was poorly moderated.   The small number of people who kept returning week after week to post offensive one liners didn't help.  I have at least 5 names in my ignore list that are all the same person posting the same drivel.

Well, you see, I think that just the opposite is the case, and that it is the left wingers who caused the problems, as in, for example, the 'clueless' poster. And from what I've seen, it is the left wingers who kept returning, and posting the same 'drivel'.

Tom_Mix

RyanHello said:

PC gone mad

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

redux

Sapphire said:

Algorfa said:

peachyprice said:

That was the problem though, it wasn't 'us' who ruined it, it was one or two disgruntled banned members coming back time and time again, posting nonsense/offensive/divisive the reads with the sole purpose of forcing MSE's hand into closing the Arms. The worst thing MSE did was post that threat, it was taken as a challenge. 

It's not difficult to work out who these people are, it doesn't take long for them to revert to their normal writing style once they're in, halfway through a thread there's that light bulb moment of 'I know who you are'.  One even boasted that as they were using a VPN there was nothing MSE could do to stop them. It was sabotage pure and simple and the same disrupters will now follow MSE members over to attempt to do the same on Digital Spy. Hopefully DS has more robust protocols. 

The forum went downhill when the right wingers took over.  Quite a few were aggressive, espcially to new posters, and discussion disappeared.  As befits the new UK, some were quite happy to post racist stuff which was poorly moderated.   The small number of people who kept returning week after week to post offensive one liners didn't help.  I have at least 5 names in my ignore list that are all the same person posting the same drivel.

Well, you see, I think that just the opposite is the case, and that it is the left wingers who caused the problems, as in, for example, the 'clueless' poster. And from what I've seen, it is the left wingers who kept returning, and posting the same 'drivel'.

As I already said once, too much of this and the similar threads will act against persuading MSE to reconsider this at a suitable time in the future.

Don't post here blaming other people, while simultaneously demonstrating an example of what the problem has been. MSE can't be bothered to referee this, and they've said so more than once.