Court Claim received, need a little reassurance that I'm in the right direction

robertcox999

Hi everyone, been reading here and has been very helpful so far.
A brief summary of what's happened:
- Claimaint - HX car park management ltd. Damside street, Lancaster.
- The claim - breaching contract by not paying within 10 mins.
- I paid for my parking stay after 25 mins. However, I paid for 1 hour and left with this 25 mins in mind - total stay from entry to exit at the gates is 1 hour 6 mins (as per their ANPR)
- Got PCN NTK in post (all their timings were good, and all their wording is good I think)
- I (before knowing of this site) did their appeal and then the IAS appeal and (obviously) lost both.
- Received loads of the usual Gladstones rubbish through the post including Gladstones LBC.
- Requested and received SAR from HX car park management.
- Received actual court claim, issued 8th June.
- Sent AOS today, 10th June (I realise now I could have waited 3 more days, but oh well).

I am now drafting my defence. I have downloaded the Coupon-mad abuse of process defence template from the 26th Feb post: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs
I have edited the claim amount to 166 which is what they are claiming (in the court claim letter they say they are claiming 100 for PCN, 60 for contractual costs and 6 for interest).
I am going to remove the 'not the driver' part.
I will add the Southampton case to the end.
How does this all look so far?

Any advice on what I should write? How much detail do I go into here? Do I save the longer story for the witness statement?

Things I am thinking of including in defence:
- access road was single lane with double yellow lines leaving me no time to read entry terms with cars behind me.
- entrance terms sign is impossible to see when actually entering, only visible from approach road as above.
- entrance terms sign is very tall (the top is about 3 meters from ground) and has small font.
- entrance and pay and display signs say 'go to the other signs for full terms'.
- in particular, the entrance sign (as its first term) says 'see full terms at pay and display machine', which I do and then it says nothing about a parking charge or a 10 minute limit to purchase a ticket! The pay and display terms also say 'see the signs around the car park for full terms'.
- I paid for the amount of time that I actually stayed plus the grace period (one hour six minutes), regardless of when I paid.

I'm glad I found this defence template, it seems pretty darn good! Hopefully the rest of the defence takes care of everything before they even need to read what I did.
Any advice really appreciated!

KeithP

robertcox999 said:

- Received actual court claim, issued 8th June.
- Sent AOS today, 10th June (I realise now I could have waited 3 more days, but oh well).

With a Claim Issue Date of 8th June, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service on 10th June, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 8th July 2020 to file your Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create and file a Defence, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Coupon-mad

Why did it take 25 mins to pay?  Downloading an app for the first time?  Extremely busy car park?

robertcox999

Coupon-mad said:

Why did it take 25 mins to pay?  Downloading an app for the first time?  Extremely busy car park?

Nothing great, I received a phone call. Then I spent a while finding the change in my car to pay at the machine.

Coupon-mad

OK - you don't need to talk about the position of the signs in #17 and #18 because the defence covers unclear signs in #19 onwards anyway.  The detail can be expanded later.

You #17 and #18 can just say that the D answered the phone on arrival, and the car was not 'left' in a space at that stage.  Then the Defendant got out to read the signs and realised it was a cash PDT machine, and had to ferret around for cash and to double check the numberplate because you have heard of scams where these firms fine people for being one digit out.  That plus a small queue at the machine (remember...?!) AND the fact the instructions on the PDT machine were complicated and the keypad faded, plus the fact the PDT machine clock is not synchronised in any way with the ANPR camera clock, meant that the Claimant has made it look like the D didn't pay for his stay.  But he did, and the C know he did, so there is no cause of action.

robertcox999

Coupon-mad said:

OK - you don't need to talk about the position of the signs in #17 and #18 because the defence covers unclear signs in #19 onwards anyway.  The detail can be expanded later.

You #17 and #18 can just say that the D answered the phone on arrival, and the car was not 'left' in a space at that stage.  Then the Defendant got out to read the signs and realised it was a cash PDT machine, and had to ferret around for cash and to double check the numberplate because you have heard of scams where these firms fine people for being one digit out.  That plus a small queue at the machine (remember...?!) AND the fact the instructions on the PDT machine were complicated and the keypad faded, plus the fact the PDT machine clock is not synchronised in any way with the ANPR camera clock, meant that the Claimant has made it look like the D didn't pay for his stay.  But he did, and the C know he did, so there is no cause of action.

That sounds great. I do remember that queue! Good point about the syncronisation of the two machines. I'll add this all to the defence and post it here.

robertcox999

I have attached a draft defence. I will change RED to black before submitting and add personal details. How does it look?

D_P_Dance

Read this

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

It is likely that, if this were to go to court, that they might struggle.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.N

Le_Kirk

robertcox999 said:

I have attached a draft defence. I will change RED to black before submitting and add personal details. How does it look?

You have missed out the important time you took to read the terms and conditions, since you couldn't read them on your way in to the car park (I know that signage forms an integral part of some of the other paragraphs of the standard defence template and @Coupon-mad advised this but it goes to explain a bit more of the 25 minutes).
Also in your other paragraph it is cause of action.

robertcox999

Ok @Le_Kirk , I've added the time spent reading the terms and also changed to cause of action.
@D_P_Dance I have included the PE v Ms X case to demonstrate the extra time spent in the car park was not parking. Is it a good idea to include this case? And have I cited it correctly?
Also, is there a template letter to MPs? My MP is Cat Smith, Labour, for Lancaster and Fleetwood.
Thanks for the help!

nosferatu1001

Of course its a good idea. 
Waiting to find a space is not parking, by defnition. Parking requires the vehicle is left.