Bitcoin

[Deleted User]

BananaRepublic Another person which doesn't understand Bitcoin. Motivate behind Bitcoin is not greed, is to enable people to transfer value freely, with anyone, using any amount, from anywhere in the world, semi-anonymously, without any third parties or governments approval. Tell me please how would you transfer money from country A to B using current monetary system? And if you wanted to transfer not $100, but $1M or maybe $100M? It would take extortionate fees and days, if not weeks of your time. You'd be subject to checks, delays, questions or simply denied of service, your money can be seized. Bitcoin fixes that.

Usability which I'm describing here has nothing to do with it's price. Bitcoin doesn't care if price of one coin is $1000, $10k or $100k - it works anyway. You don't need to be "invested" to use it.

EdGasketTheSecond

"You'd be subject to checks, delays, questions or simply denied of service, your money can be seized."

Stops money-laundering and other nefarious activities. How does Bitcoin prevent that?

Bravepants

pioruns said:

Bravepants I think you don't get it. Bitcoin *IS* the progress. It's an experimental, new monetary system. It uses much LESS energy than current banking system and infrastructure. Spending electricity to make sure that we have 100% transaction immutability, 100% resistance to censorship and fixed supply is *NOT* a waste of energy. Christmas lights are waste of energy.

Search "bitcoin vs banking electricity usage" and see for yourself.

OK, the experiment has been running for 11 years now. When does the experiment stop? When will the results of the experiment be published? When will conclusions be drawn regarding its entry into mainstream use?

The secure transfer of $100M across nations is NOT secure when the value of the currency can crash from one instant to the next due to massive volatility. Do we have to wait until the last Bitcoin is mined (in about 20 years' time) for the volitility to cease and for it to be a stable currency?

Then what?

What will determine Bitcoin's final resting price once the last Bitcoin is mined?

Here's my prediction....once no-one is making money from mining it, or from its constant volatility it willl become worthless.

Malthusian

pioruns said:

BananaRepublic Another person which doesn't understand Bitcoin. Motivate behind Bitcoin is not greed, is to enable people to transfer value freely, with anyone, using any amount, from anywhere in the world, semi-anonymously, without any third parties or governments approval.

False. As per FCA research, most holders of cryptocurrency want to get rich quick.

FCA said:

Relatively few of them were in conventional or steady jobs or pursuing typical career trajectories, instead favouring more ad hoc, gig economy, freelance or part-time employment. Many described a desire to ‘get rich quick’ and ‘get ahead’.

Their engagement with cryptoassets often featured in the context of multiple strategies they had explored to make money on top of what they earned through anyemployment. They often described a motivation to make money for minimal effort, seeking what they saw as the ‘smart’ way or the ‘shortcut’.

[...] While some respondents understood the “high risk” associated with their purchase of cryptoassets, most believed that profit was highly likely or even inevitable at some point. The dramatic fluctuations in price and the inherent riskiness in purchasing cryptoassets were rationalised as part of the thrill and, like online gamblers repeatedly checking their bets, some respondents admitted behaviours such as compulsively checking the value of their portfolios.

Most people want checks and balances when they are transferring $100m, to ensure they don't lose it. That is why they have hundreds of millions of dollars, and you are resorting to get-rich-quick schemes because you don't.

BananaRepublic

pioruns said:

Bravepants I think you don't get it. Bitcoin *IS* the progress. It's an experimental, new monetary system. It uses much LESS energy than current banking system and infrastructure. Spending electricity to make sure that we have 100% transaction immutability, 100% resistance to censorship and fixed supply is *NOT* a waste of energy. Christmas lights are waste of energy.

Search "bitcoin vs banking electricity usage" and see for yourself.

Wrong. They compare the  energy usage for a gigantic  number of transactions in the banking system with the energy usage for the tiny number of transactions using Bitcoin. If you compare the energy to create a UK pound and the corresponding fraction of a Bitcoin, and the energy used in one high street or online purchase with a current account bank card, and the corresponding value for Bitcoin, you will see that Bitcoin is astoundingly inefficient. Were Bitcoin used for all financial transactions, it would bring the world to a grinding halt in a rather short time. It’s not a practical currency, it’s a get rich quick scheme for speculators.

BananaRepublic

pioruns said:

BananaRepublic Another person which doesn't understand Bitcoin. Motivate behind Bitcoin is not greed, is to enable people to transfer value freely, with anyone, using any amount, from anywhere in the world, semi-anonymously, without any third parties or governments approval. Tell me please how would you transfer money from country A to B using current monetary system? And if you wanted to transfer not $100, but $1M or maybe $100M? It would take extortionate fees and days, if not weeks of your time. You'd be subject to checks, delays, questions or simply denied of service, your money can be seized. Bitcoin fixes that.

Usability which I'm describing here has nothing to do with it's price. Bitcoin doesn't care if price of one coin is $1000, $10k or $100k - it works anyway. You don't need to be "invested" to use it.

It is so annoying having to prove that you gained your money legally and that you are not a tax evader, a drug smuggler, an arms dealer or a child prostitute pimp. Sigh. Such thoughtlessness on the part of the international community. 

Bravepants

Inagine having to share a rather long digital message (the Bitcoin blockchain) with everyone using Bitcoin every time there is one transaction, and on each transaction the message gets longer. Has anyone worked out how many people would need to be exchanging Bitcoin at any one time to bring the Internet to a grinding halt?

[Deleted User]

EdGasketTheSecond said:

"You'd be subject to checks, delays, questions or simply denied of service, your money can be seized."

Stops money-laundering and other nefarious activities. How does Bitcoin prevent that?

Why would it? Does cash prevent money laundering? No. We are still using cash, not because it does not prevent money laundering, but because it prevent government control of your own money, like they do with all electronic money except for Bitcoin.

[Deleted User]

Malthusian said:

False. As per FCA research, most holders of cryptocurrency want to get rich quick.

Most people want checks and balances when they are transferring $100m, to ensure they don't lose it. That is why they have hundreds of millions of dollars, and you are resorting to get-rich-quick schemes because you don't.

Is the UK opressed regime, with money flow controls and hyperinflation? No. Then yes, most FCA study responders will say that their use case is store of value, to make money. Does it mean that this use case applies to everyone? No. Did FCA asked Venezuelans if they think Bitcoin is get rich quick scheme? No.

"Most people want checks and balances when they are transferring $100m, to ensure they don't lose it."

You must be forgetting how Cyprus government decided to haircut people's accounts few years ago, if affected affuent people especially and no surprise, Bitcoin has gained in value tremendously at that time. What is preventing today's governments from doing the same? Nothing. Are you prepared in case your government decide to take a cut from your savings account? No. Do you have anything to say, if government imposes ATM limit of 50 quid a day? No. With Bitcoin, *no one* can seize, force or do anything with your money, apart from yourself.

[Deleted User]

Bravepants said:

Inagine having to share a rather long digital message (the Bitcoin blockchain) with everyone using Bitcoin every time there is one transaction, and on each transaction the message gets longer. Has anyone worked out how many people would need to be exchanging Bitcoin at any one time to bring the Internet to a grinding halt?

Please familiarize yourself more with how Bitcoin works, because you are talking nonsense. You don't need to have "full node" verifying whole blockchain to participate in Bitcoin. In fact, all you need if a mobile phone, or, not even that, you can store your account ledger on a piece of paper and broadcast a transaction to the network when you are ready (from any internet access point). And all of that in fully secure, trustless way.

And for those who decide to run full, veryfing node, they need to store ~300 GB of data (as of today), with annual growth (assuming blocks are completely full) of about 75 GB per year. That's a whopping 1TB of storage ten years from now. 1TB hard drive costs 20 quid. In ten years, 1TB of storage will be worth pennies.