Furlough scheme cut-off date extended to 19 March

Illusionary

This should make a good number of people happy - the start date for the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme has today been extended to 19 March 2020 (the day before it was announced). If your employer has wanted to place you on furlough but hasn't been able to because you weren't on the payroll by the previous cut-off date of 28 February, speak to them again asap.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/furlough-scheme-cut-off-date-extended-to-19-march

Jeremy535897

Just after I said I thought it was 99% certain they wouldn't do this! Maybe I should try that more often in respect of unfavourable rules.

RichOsborne14

This is great news, as I now qualify for it! One question though...
If I accept furlough from my employer, I know I cannot take another 'job' per se, but am I still able to carry out self employed tasks as I do when employed normally? Or does furlough mean you cannot do ANYTHING else?
Can't seem to find the advice on this as I guess it's pretty specific.

Illusionary

RichOsborne14 said:

This is great news, as I now qualify for it! One question though...
If I accept furlough from my employer, I know I cannot take another 'job' per se, but am I still able to carry out self employed tasks as I do when employed normally? Or does furlough mean you cannot do ANYTHING else?
Can't seem to find the advice on this as I guess it's pretty specific.

The Job Retention Scheme itself only forbids you doing work for the employer that has furloughed you. You are free to do other work either as an employee or self-employed, provided that this doesn't violate your employment contract.

RichOsborne14

Illusionary said:

RichOsborne14 said:

This is great news, as I now qualify for it! One question though...
If I accept furlough from my employer, I know I cannot take another 'job' per se, but am I still able to carry out self employed tasks as I do when employed normally? Or does furlough mean you cannot do ANYTHING else?
Can't seem to find the advice on this as I guess it's pretty specific.

The Job Retention Scheme itself only forbids you doing work for the employer that has furloughed you. You are free to do other work either as an employee or self-employed, provided that this doesn't violate your employment contract.

Ah, OK, that's great news, thanks for clarifying. I didn't realise that, I thought it was just not being able to any work. Thank you!

Jeremy535897

If you mean that your contract of employment allows you to do self employed work, and you do it for someone other than your employer and its linked/associated companies, the consensus is that you can, despite the words in the guidance to employees:
"This scheme does not apply if you are self-employed or to any income from self-employment. You may qualify for support under the Self-employment income support scheme." The consensus is that this is just saying that you can't be furloughed in respect of self employment, or the words "or to any income from self employment" would be otiose, but having just seen DWP describe the payment of self assessment income tax as for "business purposes", who can be sure?

EssJayD

This is the first time they have referenced an RTI date in relation to the start date.  If I'm reading it right, it now means that people who would have qualified for the scheme, so may already be on furough, now wont qualify?  E.g:
Payroll date is normally 25.02.20
Employee start date of 26.02.20
Started before the original date of the 28.02.20 (generally "on payroll" without any other qualifier [which there wasn't until today] means start date and this was confirmed to me by an EL)
Now furloughed
But RTI wouldn't have been submitted for them until the 25.03.20
Therefore after the 19th March (new date)
So doesnt actually qualify
Employer cant only pay 80% as this would now be unlawful deduction from wages, so needs to backdate 100% of pay from furlough date and lay off or make redundant anyway.
As I say, if Im reading it right
(HI all by the way )

RichOsborne14

Yeah, that's what confuses me somewhat. But if I check over my original contract and all looks fine, I know there is no conflict of interest or overlap with the PAYE and the self employed work. So I think I'm safe. I just don't want to accidentally do something to cancel my furlough because I didn't understand the smallprint.

EssJayD

You'll now be fine if your employer reported you on their RTI before the 19th March, which, depending on their payroll dates, you might not have been.

In a bid to provide clarity and close the gap, they have simply created more confusion and potentially made it very awkward and costly now for a load of employers who furloughed in good faith based on the start date of the 28th Feb as the cut off.

RichOsborne14

What does the RTI mean, and why would this differ from my employment starting before March 19th?

Jeremy535897

EssJayD said:

This is the first time they have referenced an RTI date in relation to the start date.  If I'm reading it right, it now means that people who would have qualified for the scheme, so may already be on furough, now wont qualify?  E.g:
Payroll date is normally 25.02.20
Employee start date of 26.02.20
Started before the original date of the 28.02.20 (generally "on payroll" without any other qualifier [which there wasn't until today] means start date and this was confirmed to me by an EL)
Now furloughed
But RTI wouldn't have been submitted for them until the 25.03.20
Therefore after the 19th March (new date)
So doesnt actually qualify
Employer cant only pay 80% as this would now be unlawful deduction from wages, so needs to backdate 100% of pay from furlough date and lay off or make redundant anyway.
As I say, if Im reading it right
(HI all by the way )

I don't know how common this situation would be. 25 February was a Tuesday. I would expect most monthly payrolls to be run on or before 28 February for payment on 28 February. Personally I always suspected (and said) that "on the payroll" under the old guidance meant what it now clearly says under the new guidance.
Your second point about paying 80% being unlawful misunderstands the situation. What must happen is that an employer agrees with the employee in writing to furlough him. The employer may also vary the terms of the contract of employment so as to reduce the wage to 80%, which the employee also agrees. The employer pays 80% on the due date. Whether or not the employer makes a successful furlough claim or not does not impact that, unless the furlough agreement also includes a clause, accepted by the employee, that if the grant fails for any reason, the employee has to pay the wage back. In a lot of cases, such a clause will only apply if the failure of the grant is as a result of something done by the employee.