Premier Park PCN Appeal

Chiggings

Hello all. I recently received a NtK (I wasn't the driver) from Premier Park.

I've been here previously and had 3 false tickets cancelled so I've read the entire NEWBIES thread before and again when I received this latest scam letter.

So the PCN was for an alleged overstay in a 3 hour free car park. I've worked it out myself and the total amount of overstay is actually out by 1 minute using the entry and exit times given and so the PCN is incorrect.

I've already appealed as the keeper using the template from the NEWBIES thread and, of course, this was rejected so I'm now at the POPLA stage.

I already have a good appeal drafted with help from the NEWBIES and many other posters on this forum, however I'm wondering if I should point out the fault regarding the overstay duration or is it irrelevant?

One more thing, is it generally accepted by POPLA that the grace period is 10 minutes to park and read signs and make a decision on whether to stay or not (regardless of what the car park signs say) and 10 minutes to leave the car park?

Thanks all.

The_Slithy_Tove

Are you saying the car was there for 3 hours and 1 minute, or 3H11, or 3H21? If you were 1 minute over the 3 hours, you have a point. If you were 1 minute over the 3 hours PLUS the grace period(s), then you don't really, and POPLA will deem the PCN as correctly issued.

Trying to claim 1 minute past the grace period is akin to those feeling aggrieved at being done for doing 35 in a 30, saying "I was only 1 mph over the threshold (34)" where in fact they were doing 5 (16%) over the limit.

Not that I am saying the PPC deserves anything or that you shouldn't try anyway.

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Fruitcake

Presumably the alleged event occurred this year so the latest BPA CoP is the one that matters. Please read the section on grace periods carefully as well as answering T_S_T's questions.

If it is safe to go to the car park as part of your allowed daily exercise, then do so and take pics of the site and signage. If you can't visit the site then see if Google Maps Street View helps.

Use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES and post your draft here for checking before you submit it. If the delay was caused by unprecedented waiting times at a grocery, pharmacy etcetera due to the pandemic, then mention that as well as that would constitute a frustration of contract.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

Chiggings

Sorry I didn’t want to give away too much information in case the parking company patrol these forums. The overstay was 19 minutes, however the PCN stated 18 minutes. 

The car park signs also state that parking starts 5 minutes after entry, however when I read the BPA guidance it says should be a minimum of 10 minutes on entry which should overrule Premier Park’s own signage. 

I have indeed also wrote to my local MP. She sent a letter to Premier Park and a copy of the letter to me requesting that the charge be cancelled. This seems to have been totally ignored as, when I chased it up, she had not received a response 3 weeks after it was sent. Premier Park have also made no reference to it in their latest correspondence to me when they rejected my appeal. 

I have not found out who owns the land yet, but I am actively looking and considering paying for a land registry search.

Umkomaas

The car park signs also state that parking starts 5 minutes after entry, however when I read the BPA guidance it says should be a minimum of 10 minutes on entry which should overrule Premier Park’s own signage. 

Depends .......  The BPA has flicked and flacked on the amount of grace time and on whether it does or doesn't apply at the front end of parking. The date of your parking event will determine which version they have concocted in an unashamed attempt to favour their members at the expense of the motorist. All part of their strategy of 'driving up standards in the parking sector'!

Date of event please?

Chiggings

February 8th 2020

I have many other points of appeal too should grace periods fail, such as woeful signage, small font, poor lighting, obstructed by foliage etc. Don’t want to give away all my points on here but it’s the standard stuff. I’ll post my appeal and POPLA response when I receive it to help other members. 

Coupon-mad

But the BPA changed the CoP to 5 mins (observation time on arrival) in the January CoP! 
You checked and yet missed that?  The weasel words are right there in the changes to the January 2020 CoP.

You will NOT likely win this at POPLA.  Do not rush to do a POPLA appeal - in fact Brown Trout's thread from yesterday tells you that you only need to put in a holding appeal at the moment due to the pandemic (read that thread!).

It is winnable at court, in our experience, but far far easier to simply complain right now, to whoever runs the place.   If it is a retail park then no-one ever needs to do a land reg search.  It's easy to Google to find who runs any retail park.  Or wasn't it one?

Chiggings

Thanks for bringing that to my attention @Coupon-mad. Grace periods were not my main reason of appeal anyway, but I did notice the new clause stating they must respond to MPs and other VIPs. They don't seem to have done that in my case and I'll be sure to bring that up.

I've tried to Google the land owner but nothing comes up. Im going to make a phone call tomorrow to whom I think owns it and see what they say.

D_P_Dance

I saw a NCP T&C board on another thread which, if it coule be rea, (the print was tiny< would take at least 10 minutes to read.  If this gets to court these are matters which should be fully explored imo.

D_P_Dance

The car park signs also state that parking starts 5 minutes after entry

But google Parking Prankster - 31 minutes is not parking, read the whole judgement.