Help! £350 Uninsured iPad return saying delivered but isn’t

Moogles444

I sold a new genuine iPad on eBay. The buyer had low feedback and it got sent to argos so his address not seen. I was a bit worried at sale but stupidly thought it was just me over worrying as expensive. I kept serial number on sealed box of it too. Anyway over a week or two later he said it wasn’t holding charge for long and opened a not as described dispute against me. I said please first ring Apple to see if it’s settings or way set up as this is very strange. He ignored or said he didn’t see about 15 messages I sent him. He finally apparently saw my messages the day before my last day to accept return and ignored my request to ring Apple first to check if it was settings . He said it’s not keeping charge very long so I’m returning it. So I accepted return

i sent details of how to get full refund for postage return on my PayPal and said please send back special delivery and in condition sent with box sent. He just replied saying it will be in condition sent and nothing else. Ebay then sent a label as I hadn’t done the ebay label as it wouldn’t insure it and to be honest he’s so slow at replying so any label I purchased would be out of date by the time he replied .

yesterday I got a message from eBay saying delivered to me and now refund but it wasn’t! I have cctv that shows postman coming up path with just thin letters . We chased down the postman yesterday and he confirmed he hadn’t posted or left a parcel . He rung the other postman working my part of road and he also said he had nothing for me today - they both know me well as both been my postmen for a long while and they are very honest so I don’t suspect anything there. They said there is another postman doing the small numbers in my road but he does not post this end ever ( as very long road) . Nothing came all day . I tracked returned item through the return and it said it was sent via Royal Mail 48 so uninsured for £350 but says delivered and it 100% was not delivered to me.

Ebay are unavailable as are Paypal . Royal Mail said they can’t do anything till later but it will still say delivered. Ebay have no option relating to this when you report a problem as I checked so what do I do? He can just get money today if I don’t refund as I only have two days to refund.
i don’t even know if this mans name is correct as eBay and PayPal show two different names . Have I been scammed or do you think it just got delivered to different address and what can I do as he can just ask Ebay to refund as it says delivered and it hasn’t been to me? 

I’m so stressed as it’s such a lot of money to lose at the moment , especially for something I haven’t had back!
( we stood very far away from postman when asking him by the way) and this started long before lock down but he never replied so it’s dragged on.

soolin

The eBay label will be tracked back to the address they have on file for you under returns, you need to check that as if you have moved at all, or ever used a different address that might be showing. 

So the first thing to do is check the address .

Using hindsight allowing eBay to step in was a very bad idea not only because you failed to take control but because you have now lost your FVFs and you have a defect. 

Moogles444

soolin said:

The eBay label will be tracked back to the address they have on file for you under returns, you need to check that as if you have moved at all, or ever used a different address that might be showing. 

So the first thing to do is check the address .

Using hindsight allowing eBay to step in was a very bad idea not only because you failed to take control but because you have now lost your FVFs and you have a defect. 

soolin said:

The eBay label will be tracked back to the address they have on file for you under returns, you need to check that as if you have moved at all, or ever used a different address that might be showing. 

So the first thing to do is check the address .

Using hindsight allowing eBay to step in was a very bad idea not only because you failed to take control but because you have now lost your FVFs and you have a defect. 

Hi Soolin, 
The address that ebay have on file for me is totally correct as I’ve been here 20 years and always got parcels fine normally. So that’s correct . 

Buyer went straight to dispute without messaging me . If I had sent label it would have been another £8 down drain as needed it insured and he wouldn’t have used it in time ( seeing how slow he has been responding through this - and just not responding) . Ebay haven’t stepped in yet but they may today as it’s day 2.
I’m more worried about losing £350 and having no iPad than FVF and a negative strike on my account at the moment as it’s a lot of money for me at the moment. 

soolin

Moogles444 said:

soolin said:

The eBay label will be tracked back to the address they have on file for you under returns, you need to check that as if you have moved at all, or ever used a different address that might be showing. 

So the first thing to do is check the address .

Using hindsight allowing eBay to step in was a very bad idea not only because you failed to take control but because you have now lost your FVFs and you have a defect. 

soolin said:

The eBay label will be tracked back to the address they have on file for you under returns, you need to check that as if you have moved at all, or ever used a different address that might be showing. 

So the first thing to do is check the address .

Using hindsight allowing eBay to step in was a very bad idea not only because you failed to take control but because you have now lost your FVFs and you have a defect. 

Hi Soolin, 
The address that ebay have on file for me is totally correct as I’ve been here 20 years and always got parcels fine normally. So that’s correct . 

Buyer went straight to dispute without messaging me . If I had sent label it would have been another £8 down drain as needed it insured and he wouldn’t have used it in time ( seeing how slow he has been responding through this - and just not responding) 
I’m more worried about losing £350 and having no iPad than FVF and a negative strike on my account at the moment as it’s a lot of money for me at the moment. 

The eBay tracking on labels is usually excellent (and insured) so if you have checked your return address (not just the address you use on eBay) and it is correct then you need to go back to RM and see if they can assist you further. There was something on a different forum earlier this week where something showed as delivered and actually turned up the next day - I don’t recall why or what the explanation was but perhaps custardy might log in and be able to clarify. 

The reason I suggested not allowing eBay to control the return is that if you accept the return, click for eBay to provide the label you can see and confirm the address they use before you submit. Having seen on other boards that eBay have some strange return addresses on file for some long trading members , I would prefer to control my returns (and get my hefty FVFs back) than let the eBay automated system do it. Suggesting the buyer return it themselves would almost certainly have antagonised any buyer, it would also not have prevented the escalation of the SNAD claim, your only options in an SNAD case is to refund without a return, send a label or allow eBay to send a label. There is no option at that point to insist buyer returns without a label.

Finally, as for losses, this is likely to be costly, not only £350 for the iPad, but £35 FVFs plus £4-£5 PayPal fees plus the cost of the label that eBay will charge you for. I would definitely spend a bit of time talking to eBay either on the phone or by live chat, be patient, I got through on Tuesday in around 20 minutes, and I think it well worth spending the time confirming where it was sent, and also what happens now as you dispute delivery.

Lazydayz71

Really sorry to hear your story, unfortunately from experience I know how you feel.

Can you contact Royal Mail ask them to confirm the address the parcel was sent/delivered to that relates to that particular tracking number?

gowzerneo

There is a scam that has been doing the rounds lately, I myself have been on the end of it when I sold a rather expensive laptop and on my occassion ebay did not help me out one bit and gave the buyer a full refund out of my paypal account.

This is how I believe it works, the scammer claims the item is faulty, in my case the laptop was 100% working.  Ebay issue them with a return label, they alter the address of the return label.  Item gets deliverered elsewhere, scammer has full tracking and seller is forced to foot the bill because ebay are too useless to understand how the scam works.  Or in my case they know how it works but would rather I lost my money than have to deal with it.

Lazydayz71

gowzerneo said:

...ebay did not help me out one bit and gave the buyer a full refund out of my paypal account.

Hmmm, that's becoming quite a common comment.

soolin

gowzerneo said:

There is a scam that has been doing the rounds lately, I myself have been on the end of it when I sold a rather expensive laptop and on my occassion ebay did not help me out one bit and gave the buyer a full refund out of my paypal account.

This is how I believe it works, the scammer claims the item is faulty, in my case the laptop was 100% working.  Ebay issue them with a return label, they alter the address of the return label.  Item gets deliverered elsewhere, scammer has full tracking and seller is forced to foot the bill because ebay are too useless to understand how the scam works.  Or in my case they know how it works but would rather I lost my money than have to deal with it.

I’m interested in this as I’ve not come across this at all in any forum, do you have links to any comments or reports please? 

I assume that if buyer has changed the return address by hand and RM confirm that, then a simple appeal should get the decision reversed . Do RM even allow pre printed eBay labels to be changed ? Surely as well this is a slam dunk win for any seller who fails to get the return due to fraud? 

Even if eBay aren’t interested then this fraud would certainly be worth taking to small claims , proof that buyer tampered with a return to send to a different address should be an easy win for a seller. 

gowzerneo

soolin said:

gowzerneo said:

There is a scam that has been doing the rounds lately, I myself have been on the end of it when I sold a rather expensive laptop and on my occassion ebay did not help me out one bit and gave the buyer a full refund out of my paypal account.

This is how I believe it works, the scammer claims the item is faulty, in my case the laptop was 100% working.  Ebay issue them with a return label, they alter the address of the return label.  Item gets deliverered elsewhere, scammer has full tracking and seller is forced to foot the bill because ebay are too useless to understand how the scam works.  Or in my case they know how it works but would rather I lost my money than have to deal with it.

I’m interested in this as I’ve not come across this at all in any forum, do you have links to any comments or reports please? 

I assume that if buyer has changed the return address by hand and RM confirm that, then a simple appeal should get the decision reversed . Do RM even allow pre printed eBay labels to be changed ? Surely as well this is a slam dunk win for any seller who fails to get the return due to fraud? 

Even if eBay aren’t interested then this fraud would certainly be worth taking to small claims , proof that buyer tampered with a return to send to a different address should be an easy win for a seller. 

I can't post links but there is a Guardian article called: 'Seller beware! A new eBay scam using its own return label' which touches on aspects of the scam. It's actually quite easy to modify a pre printed ebay return label.  Before you print it out you alter the address, so if your return it going to 78 Willow Drive, you change it to 8 Willow Drive.  It then boils down to whether the person living at 8 Willow Drive will sign for the item as it does not have their name on the parcel.

In my case the recipient did not sign for the item but ebay refunded the buyer anyway after he escalated his claim?  It did not make any sense to me why ebay refunded the buyer with no evidence of the item being returned to me and I spoke to them at length about it several times.

Moogles444

These are all really helpful. I already asked buyer for receipt of postage yesterday , as may show house number and postcode on receipt, and again no reply

gowzerneo

Moogles444 said:

These are all really helpful. I already asked buyer for receipt of postage yesterday , as may show house number and postcode on receipt, and again no reply

If the buyer is a scammer which I suspect they might be, they will cease communication as soon as they get their money back.

My scammer went silent as soon as they got their money back.