Furlough is a farce!!

Jeremy535897

I posted earlier that I thought commission didn't come into the equation because if you are furloughed, you can't earn commission and would just be entitled to basic pay. Someone on a salary that is paid whether they work or not would still be contractually entitled to it if the employer told them to do nothing for a month.
However, you could apply exactly the same argument to zero hour contracts, but the Government chose to allow their pay to be calculated on a specific basis as set out in the guidance. I think this is unfair, but I will say that it shines a light on the practice of low basic high commission arrangements. OP has a lifestyle that takes into account an assumption that commission will be regular and sizeable. I think the Government assumption is that it is like an occasional bonus, but for many people it is clearly not.

lhsmithy1973

Jeremy535897 said:

I posted earlier that I thought commission didn't come into the equation because if you are furloughed, you can't earn commission and would just be entitled to basic pay. Someone on a salary that is paid whether they work or not would still be contractually entitled to it if the employer told them to do nothing for a month.
However, you could apply exactly the same argument to zero hour contracts, but the Government chose to allow their pay to be calculated on a specific basis as set out in the guidance. I think this is unfair, but I will say that it shines a light on the practice of low basic high commission arrangements. OP has a lifestyle that takes into account an assumption that commission will be regular and sizeable. I think the Government assumption is that it is like an occasional bonus, but for many people it is clearly not.

Thank you. You have explained this in a way couldn’t. My salary is consistent it doesn’t have  highs or lows. I have a company car which I pay company tax on and I’m a higher tax payer. I very much doubt I will get tax relief and if I did it certainly wouldn’t be immediate. So if I receive 80% of my basic at £1093 less 40% deductions company car tax and basic pension contributions I will have £200.
i certainly do not expect to receive my full salary. If I was self employed I could evidence earnings and receive 80%. If I was salaried I would earn 80%.

With regards to mortgage holidays it’s not a given that it will be offered and at the same time it can impact on your credit file. This has been advised against on this website if at all possible.

Jeremy535897

I sympathise with you, but the only alternatives are that the company pays you more than they can recover, or they put a case to HMRC that some or all of your commission is really salary. Neither looks likely, but remember you have to agree to any variation in your contract that your employer wants  and needs to have to furlough you. They could make you redundant of course, so your bargaining power is limited (although redundancy might be expensive for them). Company cars are a nuisance. If it is a big, expensive vehicle, see if they will take it back and stop it being available to you, and hire something small. There are complicated rules on car benefits that may cause a problem though. If you think this is only going to be for a month or two it might not be worth it.

lopsyfa

lhsmithy1973 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I posted earlier that I thought commission didn't come into the equation because if you are furloughed, you can't earn commission and would just be entitled to basic pay. Someone on a salary that is paid whether they work or not would still be contractually entitled to it if the employer told them to do nothing for a month.
However, you could apply exactly the same argument to zero hour contracts, but the Government chose to allow their pay to be calculated on a specific basis as set out in the guidance. I think this is unfair, but I will say that it shines a light on the practice of low basic high commission arrangements. OP has a lifestyle that takes into account an assumption that commission will be regular and sizeable. I think the Government assumption is that it is like an occasional bonus, but for many people it is clearly not.

Thank you. You have explained this in a way couldn’t. My salary is consistent it doesn’t have  highs or lows. I have a company car which I pay company tax on and I’m a higher tax payer. I very much doubt I will get tax relief and if I did it certainly wouldn’t be immediate. So if I receive 80% of my basic at £1093 less 40% deductions company car tax and basic pension contributions I will have £200.
i certainly do not expect to receive my full salary. If I was self employed I could evidence earnings and receive 80%. If I was salaried I would earn 80%.

With regards to mortgage holidays it’s not a given that it will be offered and at the same time it can impact on your credit file. This has been advised against on this website if at all possible.

I now understand your position better and I also sympathise with you. You can reduce your pension contribution to the minimum 5% and since the tax free allowance is distributed equally every month, during the months you are on furlough, you should pay minimal tax on the income. The biggie is the company car tax which is a benefits you are getting, you can maybe ask if is possible for that to be paused. The company car tax is not a % of the salary, but the value of the car and the emission. Even with the car tax, you will still receive far more than £200.

What the government is giving you is what some people earn normally or even less. I believe it is very generous and some people are in far worse situations than you.

mobilejo

lhsmithy1973 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I posted earlier that I thought commission didn't come into the equation because if you are furloughed, you can't earn commission and would just be entitled to basic pay. Someone on a salary that is paid whether they work or not would still be contractually entitled to it if the employer told them to do nothing for a month.
However, you could apply exactly the same argument to zero hour contracts, but the Government chose to allow their pay to be calculated on a specific basis as set out in the guidance. I think this is unfair, but I will say that it shines a light on the practice of low basic high commission arrangements. OP has a lifestyle that takes into account an assumption that commission will be regular and sizeable. I think the Government assumption is that it is like an occasional bonus, but for many people it is clearly not.

Thank you. You have explained this in a way couldn’t. My salary is consistent it doesn’t have  highs or lows. I have a company car which I pay company tax on and I’m a higher tax payer. I very much doubt I will get tax relief and if I did it certainly wouldn’t be immediate. So if I receive 80% of my basic at £1093 less 40% deductions company car tax and basic pension contributions I will have £200.
i certainly do not expect to receive my full salary. If I was self employed I could evidence earnings and receive 80%. If I was salaried I would earn 80%.

With regards to mortgage holidays it’s not a given that it will be offered and at the same time it can impact on your credit file. This has been advised against on this website if at all possible.

No, if you were self employed you would get nothing at all because you earn over £50k. You are in a better position being an employee.

There are going to be millions of people falling through cracks for various reasons. The fact is, its a crappy situation and its a lottery as to whether you get anything and how much you get, based on numerous factors. No can tell you how you will survive, but simply that the system is what it is and you just need to get on with it. 

I pay almost as much in tax as you earn in a year, I'm getting nothing and rightly so - on that sort of money I am expected be fine without any help (and I am), but I'll be paying for whatever help you get for years to come in increased taxation. I can understand why people earning less than you are questioning why you expected to just be good for ever and never thought you might need a rainy day fund.

lopsyfa

mobilejo said:

lhsmithy1973 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I pay almost as much in tax as you earn in a year, I'm getting nothing and rightly so - on that sort of money I am expected be fine without any help (and I am), but I'll be paying for whatever help you get for years to come in increased taxation. I can understand why people earning less than you are questioning why you expected to just be good for ever and never thought you might need a rainy day fund.

How did you know what people earn?

mobilejo

lopsyfa said:

mobilejo said:

lhsmithy1973 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I pay almost as much in tax as you earn in a year, I'm getting nothing and rightly so - on that sort of money I am expected be fine without any help (and I am), but I'll be paying for whatever help you get for years to come in increased taxation. I can understand why people earning less than you are questioning why you expected to just be good for ever and never thought you might need a rainy day fund.

How did you know what people earn?

Because:

NCC-1707 said:

Where are your savings guys? 40k - 55k is good money to be on and there should be a rainy day fund from it surely? Do you expect taxpayers like  myself on less than 20k/year to fund you to a hIgher level than I'm earning?