Message from ABTA A disgrace.

43722

I would say different. Travel Companies are like any other business. The ones who offer straightforward refunds to customers are showing the way. The ones who are procrastinating, they are not looking after their customers, and will have to be prepared for a customer backlash. I have had two different refunds recently from big theatres in respect of performances cancelled because of the current crisis. If they can do it (and I did not need to approach them) I think travel companies can do it too.

Alan_Bowen

A theatre and a travel company are two entirely different animals. Travel companies buy in services from others such as airlines, if they would refund, so would the travel companies, or at least the good ones. Theatres are in control of their own expenses and do not pay out before you arrive to take your seat. I totally sympathise with those who want their money back, at present agents and operators seem to be enemy number one in many peoples eyes and yet none of it is of their own making. Pleading to the government for help has got nowhere, so in that awful phrase that I hate 'we are where we are'

43722

With respect, from where i stand, travel companies and theatres are similar. They are both businesses, trade with their customers,and generally follow laws and established trading protocols. A cancellation by provider will lead to a refund, established by law. I was surprised to see in this forum a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds. If businesses need help, then they should turn to finance houses or government, not throw it back on the consumer.

Pollycat

43722 said:

With respect, from where i stand, travel companies and theatres are similar. They are both businesses, trade with their customers,and generally follow laws and established trading protocols. A cancellation by provider will lead to a refund, established by law. I was surprised to see in this forum a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds. If businesses need help, then they should turn to finance houses or government, not throw it back on the consumer.

I agree with Alan Bowen.

You are comparing apples and elephants.

As for 'a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds' some of those posters you are accusing of 'offhand and disinterested responses' are also in the position of having had their holidays cancelled from under them.

The difference is that they are being pragmatic about the situation rather than stamping their feet and throwing their toys out of the pram.

movilogo

If TUI go bust - and some posters appear to relish the idea - I'm not sure who will step up to fill that hole.

No one needs to fill up that role. Once lock down is over, things are not magically going to be as before. A lot of travellers, especially older people who are more vulnerable to the virus, may not travel for a long time. Lots of young people may not travel due to job losses. 
More so, travellers may prefer to book flights and hotels directly avoiding agents like TUI, Expedia etc.
If there is indeed a vacancy for TUI type companies, then market will generate one with demand.

Pollycat

movilogo said:

If TUI go bust - and some posters appear to relish the idea - I'm not sure who will step up to fill that hole.

No one needs to fill up that role. Once lock down is over, things are not magically going to be as before. A lot of travellers, especially older people who are more vulnerable to the virus, may not travel for a long time. Lots of young people may not travel due to job losses. 
More so, travellers may prefer to book flights and hotels directly avoiding agents like TUI, Expedia etc.
If there is indeed a vacancy for TUI type companies, then market will generate one with demand.

The post of mine you quoted was in response to 43722 who said:

43722 said:

Pollycat said:

43722 said:

movilogo said:

Why the travel industry needs to be saved? They can go bust and reappear when things become normal again.
Govt can help the employees directly who would lose their jobs. 
I don't understand why airlines can't get the money from their insurers. They must have insurance to protect them from these types of events. 

I had the same thought. Some travel companies are finding a way to get refunds to customers. Some, i suspect, are making it customers foot the bill for being caught out themselves. No great shame if they go to the wall.

Until you want to book your next holiday and because of the lack of competition the prices are through the roof...

It is possible of course that new companies could supply cheaper holidays. It is also possible that some of us may not see holidays as a priority in the coming months. Travel companies do not have a Divine Right to exist and thrive. Many have come and gone over the years.

so it was 43722 who mentioned 'filling up that role'.

bagand96

43722 said:

With respect, from where i stand, travel companies and theatres are similar. They are both businesses, trade with their customers,and generally follow laws and established trading protocols. A cancellation by provider will lead to a refund, established by law. I was surprised to see in this forum a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds. If businesses need help, then they should turn to finance houses or government, not throw it back on the consumer.

Nobody is disagreeing where the law sits.  But as people keep saying, what if the travel companies don't have the cashflow/liquidity to make those refunds immediately?  Then what? Declare insolvency and get the receivers in I guess?  That isn't going to put the consumers in any better a position than they're in now.  The ATOL fund wouldn't even scratch the surface right now.

43722

Pollycat said:

43722 said:

With respect, from where i stand, travel companies and theatres are similar. They are both businesses, trade with their customers,and generally follow laws and established trading protocols. A cancellation by provider will lead to a refund, established by law. I was surprised to see in this forum a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds. If businesses need help, then they should turn to finance houses or government, not throw it back on the consumer.

I agree with Alan Bowen.

You are comparing apples and elephants.

As for 'a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds' some of those posters you are accusing of 'offhand and disinterested responses' are also in the position of having had their holidays cancelled from under them.

The difference is that they are being pragmatic about the situation rather than stamping their feet and throwing their toys out of the pram.

I find the tone of your last response offensive. It is your choice to use language such as "stamping their feet" and "throwing their toys out of the pram". It is inflammatory and uncalled for. They are your opinions, but you could try to explain them more clearly.
There are clearly at least two points of view here, I saw a number of responses which appeared to indicate indifference to the plight of some people in this crisis. I felt at the time, and still do, that people should be made aware of their rights. I have had one company offer me vouchers, without even mentioning that a refund was possible. Fortunately I was able to make it clear that I was aware of my consumer rights. Travel Companies need to tell their customers of all the possible ways forward, not just the ones that suit them best. I find it hard to believe that anyone would support companies when they try to pull the wool over customers' eyes. 

Pollycat

43722 said:

Pollycat said:

43722 said:

With respect, from where i stand, travel companies and theatres are similar. They are both businesses, trade with their customers,and generally follow laws and established trading protocols. A cancellation by provider will lead to a refund, established by law. I was surprised to see in this forum a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds. If businesses need help, then they should turn to finance houses or government, not throw it back on the consumer.

I agree with Alan Bowen.

You are comparing apples and elephants.

As for 'a pattern of  offhand and disinterested responses to people who were offered vouchers instead of refunds' some of those posters you are accusing of 'offhand and disinterested responses' are also in the position of having had their holidays cancelled from under them.

The difference is that they are being pragmatic about the situation rather than stamping their feet and throwing their toys out of the pram.

I find the tone of your last response offensive. It is your choice to use language such as "stamping their feet" and "throwing their toys out of the pram". It is inflammatory and uncalled for. They are your opinions, but you could try to explain them more clearly.
There are clearly at least two points of view here, I saw a number of responses which appeared to indicate indifference to the plight of some people in this crisis. I felt at the time, and still do, that people should be made aware of their rights. I have had one company offer me vouchers, without even mentioning that a refund was possible. Fortunately I was able to make it clear that I was aware of my consumer rights. Travel Companies need to tell their customers of all the possible ways forward, not just the ones that suit them best. I find it hard to believe that anyone would support companies when they try to pull the wool over customers' eyes. 

I regret that you find the tone of my last response offensive.

If you need my choice of words explaining I suggest you refer back to the posts made by the poster who has now declared he/she has left the thread.

And let's not forget that that same poster made a - imho and other posters - offensive remark about 'vested interest' because they didn't like the responses they were getting.

Is not threatening to be at the front of a mob in a shop where the people employed there have had no hand in this mess akin to stamping your feet? Or worse?

I merely pointed out that a lot of people are in the same position as those threatening to be at the front of an angry mob but are behaving differently.

You have seen 'a number of responses which appeared to indicate indifference to the plight of some people in this crisis.'

I have seen calm, sensible, pragmatic responses.

As you say, there are at least 2 points of view here.

I don't think anyone had said you - or anyone else - should not make others aware of their rights.

I certainly haven't said that.

Fairypop

Please note that ABTA have now changed the goalposts again. The July date has gone and now it’s any date in line with a Company’s financial protection arrangements - none of which the consumer will be party to. It’s madness.