Message from ABTA A disgrace.

MaebyJade

It's not surprising people are rejecting credit vouchers with some of the T&Cs they come with. For example, these are some of Travel Bag's credit vouchers T&Cs:

1. New booking must be made up to 30 September

2. New booking must include flights with the original airline

3. New bookings must depart anytime between 1 July 2020 and 31 March 2021. 

I mean come on. Even the 'reasonable' consumers willing to accept a voucher will be put off by things like this. There has to be some incentive to accepting a voucher. 

Nebulous2

MaebyJade said:

It's not surprising people are rejecting credit vouchers with some of the T&Cs they come with. For example, these are some of Travel Bag's credit vouchers T&Cs:

1. New booking must be made up to 30 September

2. New booking must include flights with the original airline

3. New bookings must depart anytime between 1 July 2020 and 31 March 2021. 

I mean come on. Even the 'reasonable' consumers willing to accept a voucher will be put off by things like this. There has to be some incentive to accepting a voucher. 

Here's a Guardian article with some suggestions. Enhance the value, extend to 5 years, make them transferable. 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/apr/10/airlines-law-refunds-voucher-schemes-coronavirus

MaebyJade

Nebulous2 said:

Here's a Guardian article with some suggestions. Enhance the value, extend to 5 years, make them transferable. 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/apr/10/airlines-law-refunds-voucher-schemes-coronavirus

Good article. It makes sense let's hope the airlines/travel companies take note.

movilogo

Why the travel industry needs to be saved? They can go bust and reappear when things become normal again.
Govt can help the employees directly who would lose their jobs. 
I don't understand why airlines can't get the money from their insurers. They must have insurance to protect them from these types of events. 

43722

movilogo said:

Why the travel industry needs to be saved? They can go bust and reappear when things become normal again.
Govt can help the employees directly who would lose their jobs. 
I don't understand why airlines can't get the money from their insurers. They must have insurance to protect them from these types of events. 

I had the same thought. Some travel companies are finding a way to get refunds to customers. Some, i suspect, are making it customers foot the bill for being caught out themselves. No great shame if they go to the wall.

Pollycat

43722 said:

movilogo said:

Why the travel industry needs to be saved? They can go bust and reappear when things become normal again.
Govt can help the employees directly who would lose their jobs. 
I don't understand why airlines can't get the money from their insurers. They must have insurance to protect them from these types of events. 

I had the same thought. Some travel companies are finding a way to get refunds to customers. Some, i suspect, are making it customers foot the bill for being caught out themselves. No great shame if they go to the wall.

Until you want to book your next holiday and because of the lack of competition the prices are through the roof...

Alan_Bowen

I am probably adding fuel to the fire but I want to add a little context to the heat here. ABTA has proposed Refund Credit Vouchers with a deadline of 31 July this year. ABTA bonds its travel agents and wants to be able to guarantee that they can use the bond, which is a financial guarantee from a bank or insurer, to refund customers if the company ceases to trade before the customer gets their holiday or a refund. Bonds expire on 31 July and some companies may choose to leave ABTA at that point so ABTA wanted to ensure there were no consumer risks.
Not all companies are ABTA members, some just hold ATOL protection and their financial guarantees work to different deadlines, either the end of September or the end of March 2021. Again, no company should be offering a voucher with financial protection beyond one of those dates because there would be no guarantees behind it and that is vital. No one should accept a voucher with a longer expiry date because in the intervening period it might not be worth more than the paper you printed it on. 
The ABTA proposal is that if you haven't rebooked by 31 July you can get a cash refund at that point. many seem to think that agents and operators are living off the money they paid for their holidays, they are not. The airlines demand payment almost immediately after the booking is made and 99% of them have not offered refunds but at best credit vouchers, which restricts what can be offered in the future and although a few large operators, TUI and Jet2.com, for example, won't pay hotels until you travel, smaller operators and agents certainly do and hotels which are now closed, aren't offering money back now either.
The situation is appalling and I do understand the need some customers have for refunds, but the government won't take action even against UK based airlines and agents cannot magic money out of thin air.

bagand96

Alan_Bowen said:

I am probably adding fuel to the fire but I want to add a little context to the heat here. ABTA has proposed Refund Credit Vouchers with a deadline of 31 July this year. ABTA bonds its travel agents and wants to be able to guarantee that they can use the bond, which is a financial guarantee from a bank or insurer, to refund customers if the company ceases to trade before the customer gets their holiday or a refund. Bonds expire on 31 July and some companies may choose to leave ABTA at that point so ABTA wanted to ensure there were no consumer risks.
Not all companies are ABTA members, some just hold ATOL protection and their financial guarantees work to different deadlines, either the end of September or the end of March 2021. Again, no company should be offering a voucher with financial protection beyond one of those dates because there would be no guarantees behind it and that is vital. No one should accept a voucher with a longer expiry date because in the intervening period it might not be worth more than the paper you printed it on. 
The ABTA proposal is that if you haven't rebooked by 31 July you can get a cash refund at that point. many seem to think that agents and operators are living off the money they paid for their holidays, they are not. The airlines demand payment almost immediately after the booking is made and 99% of them have not offered refunds but at best credit vouchers, which restricts what can be offered in the future and although a few large operators, TUI and Jet2.com, for example, won't pay hotels until you travel, smaller operators and agents certainly do and hotels which are now closed, aren't offering money back now either.
The situation is appalling and I do understand the need some customers have for refunds, but the government won't take action even against UK based airlines and agents cannot magic money out of thin air.

 Excellent and sensible explanation of the situation Alan, as usual.

43722

Pollycat said:

43722 said:

movilogo said:

Why the travel industry needs to be saved? They can go bust and reappear when things become normal again.
Govt can help the employees directly who would lose their jobs. 
I don't understand why airlines can't get the money from their insurers. They must have insurance to protect them from these types of events. 

I had the same thought. Some travel companies are finding a way to get refunds to customers. Some, i suspect, are making it customers foot the bill for being caught out themselves. No great shame if they go to the wall.

Until you want to book your next holiday and because of the lack of competition the prices are through the roof...

It is possible of course that new companies could supply cheaper holidays. It is also possible that some of us may not see holidays as a priority in the coming months. Travel companies do not have a Divine Right to exist and thrive. Many have come and gone over the years.

Pollycat

43722 said:

Pollycat said:

43722 said:

movilogo said:

Why the travel industry needs to be saved? They can go bust and reappear when things become normal again.
Govt can help the employees directly who would lose their jobs. 
I don't understand why airlines can't get the money from their insurers. They must have insurance to protect them from these types of events. 

I had the same thought. Some travel companies are finding a way to get refunds to customers. Some, i suspect, are making it customers foot the bill for being caught out themselves. No great shame if they go to the wall.

Until you want to book your next holiday and because of the lack of competition the prices are through the roof...

It is possible of course that new companies could supply cheaper holidays. It is also possible that some of us may not see holidays as a priority in the coming months. Travel companies do not have a Divine Right to exist and thrive. Many have come and gone over the years.

Of course it's possible.

But how likely do you think it is?

You are right. 'Many have come and gone over the years.'

Over the 40 years I've been holidaying abroad I've seen many holiday companies go under.

Some have been bought out by the 'biggies'.

Lots of small companies offering value holidays to Greece and Turkey have been subsumed into larger companies over the years.

We don't even have First Choice as an alternative to TUI anymore, it's part of the same company.

Some have even been one of the 'biggies' - Monarch and Thomas Cook for example.

If TUI go bust - and some posters appear to relish the idea - I'm not sure who will step up to fill that hole.

So I'd say 'be careful what you wish for'.