Message from ABTA A disgrace.

bagand96

SevenOfNine said:

Looks like ABTA have made their own decision on what a traveller will have to accept by way of a credit travel voucher, INITIALLY with a refund after 31July, not bothering to wait for government intervention then, just a law unto themselves. Even refusing to inestigate complaints against their members in relation to coronavirus refunds.

https://www.abta.com/news/coronavirus-outbreak

ABTA are an industry body for travel agents - clue being in their original name Association of British Travel Agents.  Although they do provide some services for consumers (like complaints against their members), their primary aim is to represent the Travel Agent industry, so it is no surprise the stance they have taken.

Ziggyplus

An article in this morning’s Financial Times criticises travel companies for attempting to force vouchers rather than refunds.  European governments(including UK) are tacitly encouraging this by sitting on their hands rather than acting. It is about time that MSE, Simon Calder and Which, so- called consumers’ friends, acted, rather than repeating two week old Government hints that they are going to do something imminently.  This just encourages ABTA and the travel companies.

spiro

France has already changed to law to allow firms to offer a credit note, if it is not used within 18 months you are entitled to a refund. ABTA are pushing the government to change the 14 day refund period to 4 months to protect the industry. If everyone got a cash refund now, there would be no travel companies left to use going forward.

Ziggyplus

So you are happy for individual consumers to be forced to give major companies interest free loans? Retrospectively changing their legal rights?  As I have said before, the solution is for Governments to lend whatever finance is needed against the security of company equity or assets. UK Govt is already effectively lender of last resort through ATOL.  I am not sure if I am impressed by French precedents.  Germans have already lent TUI €1.5 billion.

Aylesbury_Duck

Ziggyplus said:

So you are happy for individual consumers to be forced to give major companies interest free loans? Retrospectively changing their legal rights?  As I have said before, the solution is for Governments to lend whatever finance is needed against the security of company equity or assets. UK Govt is already effectively lender of last resort through ATOL.  I am not sure if I am impressed by French precedents.  Germans have already lent TUI €1.5 billion.

Just four months ago there was universal condemnation of Labour's plans to throw billions into the economy. "Wasteful", "uncosted", "delusional" was the general sentiment, and their spending plans were for things like health, welfare and education.  A short while later everyone expects any sector they're employed by or a customer of to get a bailout, even such "vital" industries as er.....travel and tourism. 

Socialism sure is popular in a pandemic. 

Ziggyplus

Mmmm!
i would not lump the customers and companies together. The former are not asking for a “bail out”, simply their legal rights. I cannot help adding the thought that in 2008 customers were not forced to make interest free loans to the banks. The Government stepped in with massive loans in exchange for equity.  I am tired of one way arguments by fat cat travel companies and their apologists. An open debate would be welcome, such as that which the FT is attempting this morning. The deposits that travel companies took and are trying to retain are not their money.  Should have been ring fenced - placed in escrow. Instead the funds were used as interest free financing. Sure, if travel companies had to finance themselves properly,  holidays would be more expensive. So what?

anticlaus105

Ziggyplus said:

Mmmm!
i would not lump the customers and companies together. The former are not asking for a “bail out”, simply their legal rights. I cannot help adding the thought that in 2008 customers were not forced to make interest free loans to the banks. The Government stepped in with massive loans in exchange for equity.  I am tired of one way arguments by fat cat travel companies and their apologists. An open debate would be welcome, such as that which the FT is attempting this morning. The deposits that travel companies took and are trying to retain are not their money.  Should have been ring fenced - placed in escrow. Instead the funds were used as interest free financing. Sure, if travel companies had to finance themselves properly,  holidays would be more expensive. So what?

I too am sick of all the travel company appologists on here (some who no doubt have a vested intetest) trying to shame people into taking vouchers making out they are being unreasonable by asking for their own money back and comparing them to toilet roll hoarders, all while defending the travel companies who continue treat them with disregard. It's ridiculous.

Aylesbury_Duck

anticlaus105 said:

Ziggyplus said:

Mmmm!
i would not lump the customers and companies together. The former are not asking for a “bail out”, simply their legal rights. I cannot help adding the thought that in 2008 customers were not forced to make interest free loans to the banks. The Government stepped in with massive loans in exchange for equity.  I am tired of one way arguments by fat cat travel companies and their apologists. An open debate would be welcome, such as that which the FT is attempting this morning. The deposits that travel companies took and are trying to retain are not their money.  Should have been ring fenced - placed in escrow. Instead the funds were used as interest free financing. Sure, if travel companies had to finance themselves properly,  holidays would be more expensive. So what?

I too am sick of all the travel company appologists on here (some who no doubt have a vested intetest) trying to shame people into taking vouchers making out they are being unreasonable by asking for their own money back and comparing them to toilet roll hoarders, all while defending the travel companies who continue treat them with disregard. It's ridiculous.

"I don't like the correct advice I'm getting so the person giving it must have a vested interest".

Never gets old.

soolin

anticlaus105 said:

Ziggyplus said:

Mmmm!
i would not lump the customers and companies together. The former are not asking for a “bail out”, simply their legal rights. I cannot help adding the thought that in 2008 customers were not forced to make interest free loans to the banks. The Government stepped in with massive loans in exchange for equity.  I am tired of one way arguments by fat cat travel companies and their apologists. An open debate would be welcome, such as that which the FT is attempting this morning. The deposits that travel companies took and are trying to retain are not their money.  Should have been ring fenced - placed in escrow. Instead the funds were used as interest free financing. Sure, if travel companies had to finance themselves properly,  holidays would be more expensive. So what?

I too am sick of all the travel company appologists on here (some who no doubt have a vested intetest) trying to shame people into taking vouchers making out they are being unreasonable by asking for their own money back and comparing them to toilet roll hoarders, all while defending the travel companies who continue treat them with disregard. It's ridiculous.

I would be happier with a voucher scheme if the various tour companies and airlines treated us fairly instead of expecting us to give up or legal rights while they upped their prices. I have had 2 holidays cancelled so far, the first the hotel desperately tried to get me to rebook within a 9 month window but increased their prices within that window by at least 14% - and for some dates even more, I had naively expected that if I switched from off peak to another off peak date then they would keep the pricing the same as it was before this crisis. I happen to know what the prices were for later in the year as I had previously looked them up as I hadn't decided whether to go in March or October. Just looking now out of interest, and the October (outside the school holidays) have gone up again since I last checked !

My second holiday I was prepared to take vouchers for (but the hotel have confirmed that despite being closed they are not offering refunds) - and I had started to look at fares for later in the year- and they are increasing in prices faster than I can check them. I personally believe that many companies knowing that they have people with vouchers out there waiting to rebook have increased their prices as they know they have a captive audience. 

If companies treated us fairly then perhaps we would have more sympathy for them. I have 3 more holidays later in the year, the final one I have great hopes of getting to, but if not I have already agreed to move forward a year, but I am trusting the people to only increase by inflation or a small amount . The other two I will now be going for a refund only if they are cancelled and will either go down the charge-back route or via insurance. My insurance company have already said to only approach them if a chargeback fails- which is fair enough.

anticlaus105

Aylesbury_Duck said:

anticlaus105 said:

Ziggyplus said:

Mmmm!
i would not lump the customers and companies together. The former are not asking for a “bail out”, simply their legal rights. I cannot help adding the thought that in 2008 customers were not forced to make interest free loans to the banks. The Government stepped in with massive loans in exchange for equity.  I am tired of one way arguments by fat cat travel companies and their apologists. An open debate would be welcome, such as that which the FT is attempting this morning. The deposits that travel companies took and are trying to retain are not their money.  Should have been ring fenced - placed in escrow. Instead the funds were used as interest free financing. Sure, if travel companies had to finance themselves properly,  holidays would be more expensive. So what?

I too am sick of all the travel company appologists on here (some who no doubt have a vested intetest) trying to shame people into taking vouchers making out they are being unreasonable by asking for their own money back and comparing them to toilet roll hoarders, all while defending the travel companies who continue treat them with disregard. It's ridiculous.

"I don't like the correct advice I'm getting so the person giving it must have a vested interest".

Never gets old.

Never gets wrong either.