Advice needed on pay entitlement - can employer just stop pay in current circumstances

unholyangel

Molly56 said:

sharpe106 said:

You can obviously refuse to do the work. When you say next month do you mean into August? as then is when shielding is meant to stop. 

Job is potentially the first week of August. Our current decision is to refuse the work; I contacted the Health and Safety Executive with a query and received a very useful reply. Based on our own risk assessment, the fact he is in a clinically vulnerable group and workplace is not being made Covid secure we believe we are fully within our rights to do so.
Our next step is to potentially force a redundancy situation as his employer had already indicated he was not going to carry on but just need to check out how to do this and make sure there are no grounds on which it can be refused. We are anticipating that his employer will probably say he hasn’t got the money but know there are assets in the business. My husband is only employee and business is operated as a sole trader so am I right in thinking that the liability is not just limited to those of the business. Am anticipating there may be more questions on this topic as things progress....any advice would be appreciated, thanks 

Be aware that while your husband may have grounds which would make it reasonable to refuse to attend work, he isn't necessarily entitled to be paid while doing so. 

Also be aware that it may not force a redunancy situation. It could actually give the employer a fair reason for dismissal - if your husband claims he's not capable of doing his job due to health reasons. 

Your husband should email his boss (so it's in writing, in case you need it) to discuss his concerns and perhaps suggest a few ways to lessen the risk. However be aware that even if your husband's condition is covered as a disability, the employer is only bound to make reasonable adjustments. There's no obligation for them to pull out all the stops. Expense and how readily it can be enacted are both considerations in whether an adjustment is reasonable or not. 

Molly56

Latest update....tour booked for August has been called off and no other work on the books.....have been informed that coach is up for sale so looks like redundancy could be on the cards...no coach =no job for coach driver!....the only issue is that his boss did suggest that he could possibly hire a vehicle if any future work comes up (unlikely in forseeable future and issue of Covid secure workplace still there...boss won’t pay for health and safety) but still think that redundancy is most likely option (and now our preferred option) as once furlough rules change his boss will say he can’t pay especially when reverting back to normal pay.......hoping it all comes to a head in the next few weeks and we can get things moving down the redundancy route and then get on with our lives.
 

Just trying to check redundancy process out and make sure that we don’t miss any possible scenarios that will trip it up....answers on here have been most helpful so thank you for all replies....will be back if further advice required as situation develops. 

Molly56

Currently on furlough scheme and mentioned to employer about changes coming up in furlough payments and need for employer to contribute, he tells us that he has ‘asked around and this is voluntary‘ and that my husband will only receive 70% come September and that he can’t afford to pay anything. 
We know this is wrong and suggested he check his facts but he then sidelines conversation....doesn’t bode well for what is to come. 

Think we may need to seek outside advice at some point but not sure which is best given our circumstances....options on table so far are Citizens Advice and / or ACAS.....may be jumping the gun slightly but feel we need to be prepared...... (I was a Girl Guide!! )

sharpe106

The information about the changes to the scheme

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme/changes-to-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

It is not optional from September. No harm in getting in touch with either CAB or ACAS beforehand. 

Thrugelmir

If the employer isn't in a financial position to contribute. Then the only outcome is a fundamental restructuring of the business. 

Molly56

sharpe106 said:

The information about the changes to the scheme

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme/changes-to-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

It is not optional from September. No harm in getting in touch with either CAB or ACAS beforehand. 

Any suggestions which advice to go for first given what you know of our circumstances......am currently in process of documenting everything we have to date together with timelines etc so that we can hand details over as and when required. Employer being very evasive with requests for information (tried to check which weeks furlough pay received for and which outstanding) and nothing in writing....not sure how he will engage with possible conciliation etc but think we will have no option given track record and comments received to date.

Molly56

Thrugelmir said:

If the employer isn't in a financial position to contribute. Then the only outcome is a fundamental restructuring of the business. 

Not sure how you can restructure one employer, one employee and one coach!

sharpe106

If you have a CAB office near by you could maybe arrange to see a person, if not ACAS is probably more employment then CAB. 

Molly56

Coach is now up for sale on a well known auction site. Discussion with his employer this morning highlighted issues and employer adamant he couldn’t afford to pay contribution to furlough, any wages and when we raised the issue, redundancy payment. Was proposing to lay off husband with no pay until work comes along and then perhaps hire a vehicle to do job. 

We have now expressed our concerns to him in writing (via email) and are awaiting his reply.....not holding our breath as he is notoriously known for avoiding the issue. 

Have tried calling ACAS for advice but cannot even get in a queue to speak with anyone; also tried Citizens Advice but phone just rang and rang.....weighing up our options.....are there any solicitors that can give free guidance or advice if we can’t get hold of either of the above or some other way of getting hold of ACAS advisors (eg via email) 

Currently keeping all our documentation up to date together with written timeline just in case it is needed.

Have looked into the government scheme for claiming from them for redundancy pay when an employer cannot pay but don’t think that will be applicable as employer trades as a sole trader and hence his liability is not limited to assets of the business....think the government scheme relies on a business being insolvent .....can a sole trader be insolvent.......hope this doesn’t complicate our case too much.....what are our routes if we can’t rely on this....

Any advice appreciated, thanks 

onwards&upwards

Sounds like this small business owner is going through hell.  :'(