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Accidental small underpayment

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  • Jimsnap
    Jimsnap Posts: 103 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    I'll get the hang of this one day
  • Jimsnap
    Jimsnap Posts: 103 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    My second WS draft.

    I've included the 'Abuse of process - the quantum' section from @jrhys WS but not the Beavis one. 
       

    1. The facts below are true to the best of my belief and my account has been prepared based upon my own knowledge

      Sequence of events:

    2.  I arrived, along with my wife arrived at the PPL carpark at approx 7.20pm.

    3.  It was a dark night, we were running late for a show at The Hippodrome.

    4.  For the aforementioned reasons, instead of going to the payment machine I went over to a parking attendant, (who was in the process of issuing a ticket to another car) to ask what the charges were, he informed me they were £3 for one hour or £6 to park until 8am the following morning.

    5.  I went back to the car and my wife gave me 6 one pound coins from the purse of change we keep for parking meters, I inserted them into the payment machine, took the ticket and placed it on the dash, happy that although we only needed 2-3 hours we had plenty of time in hand if needed.

    6.  There was no indication from the machine that anything was amiss.

    7.  When we returned to the car after the show I was shocked to see a parking notice on the windscreen, and at first thought that somebody had placed it there as a joke but soon realised it wasn’t.

    8.  When I examined the ticket I’d paid for I found it showed the machine had issued a ticket to the value of only £5, which was printed on the ticket, and that the ticket only allowed one hour parking time.

    9.  I was confused by this because there was no £5 tariff and in fact, as I found out later, there was a notice on the machine stating it will only issue a ticket when the correct fee is inserted, this is clearly incorrect.
    I would have thought the machine would have refunded the over-payment which would have alerted me to the problem.

    10.  My assertion is that the machine was faulty and failed to register all of the coins that I'd inserted, or that it had rejected one of my coins, which went unnoticed by me, but still issued a ticket for an invalid amount.

    11. My appeal to PPL was rejected because they said the ticket I displayed was incorrect, this is the fault of their machine, not me, they stated I should have checked the ticket; If I’d bought a ticket for a shorter period I would normally check it to make sure I returned in time, but because I’d bought one which was far in excess of the time I needed I didn’t automatically do that, also it was dark and wet and I wasn’t wearing my reading glasses.
    I trusted the machine to operate correctly.

    12 I contacted the claimants solicitor to request a read-out from the machine in order to see if there was any record from the day in question, this was refused on the grounds that PPL didn’t own the machine.

    Abuse of process – the quantum

    12. In addition to the disputed Parking Charge Notice claim amount of £100, the
    Claimant has added a sum of £60. 
    The added £60 constitutes double recovery and the court is invited to find the quantum claimed is
    false and an abuse of process as was found by District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ
    Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) in Excel vs Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, a similar case
    in which £60 had been added to a parking charge, heard in July 2020
    The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with an improper
    collateral purpose. Leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.
    13. After hearing this ‘test case’, which followed numerous Judges repeatedly disallowing
    the £60 sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims,
    Judge Jackson at the Bradford County Court went into significant detail before concluding
    that parking operators (such as the Claimant in this case) are seeking to circumvent CPR
    27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Others, like Judge Hickinbottom
    of the same court area, have since echoed Judge Jackson’s words and struck out dozens of
    cases. Judge Hickinbottom recently stated "I find that striking out this claim is the only
    appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown".

     Evidence of payment

    14.  I have attached a copy of the disputed ticket along with the photo taken by the parking attendant of the ticket in place. 

    As you can see from the attendants photo, only the time is legible, maybe if he had been able to read the amount paid he would not have issued the penalty ticket.

    15.

     


    16. I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 24,587 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    2.  I arrived, along with my wife, arrived at the PPL carpark at approx 7.20pm.
    Edit as above
    3.  It was a dark night, we were running late for a show at The Hippodrome.
    I wouldn't put that you were running late as it might lead the judge to suppose you did not take care with inserting coins into the PDT.  If you are going to say it was a dark night, you have to add some relevance to it for example "it was a dark night and the signs/PDT were not [properly] illuminated".
  • Jimsnap
    Jimsnap Posts: 103 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Le_Kirk said:
    2.  I arrived, along with my wife, arrived at the PPL carpark at approx 7.20pm.
    Edit as above
    3.  It was a dark night, we were running late for a show at The Hippodrome.
    I wouldn't put that you were running late as it might lead the judge to suppose you did not take care with inserting coins into the PDT.  If you are going to say it was a dark night, you have to add some relevance to it for example "it was a dark night and the signs/PDT were not [properly] illuminated".
    Good point, thanks for that. 
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 27 June 2021 at 7:18PM
    9 does not seem right , as I commented on earlier , there was no overpayment , 6 £1 coins were inserted and accepted for a supposedly £6 ticket , the machine did not indicate anything was amiss when it dispensed the ticket , making the buyer think all was well

    So to repeat , there was never any overpayment , that assertion is completely false !!  Capiche ??
  • Jimsnap
    Jimsnap Posts: 103 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Redx said:
    9 does not seem right , as I commented on earlier , there was no overpayment , 6 £1 coins were inserted and accepted for a supposedly £6 ticket , the machine did not indicate anything was amiss when it dispensed the ticket , making the buyer think all was well

    So to repeat , there was never any overpayment , that assertion is completely false !!  Capiche ??


    My mistake, I had taken it out as you said, I then somehow posted a mid-draft version.

    Below is the correct one.

    1.The facts below are true to the best of my belief and my account has been prepared based upon my own knowledge

      Sequence of events:

    2.  I arrived, along with my wife arrived at the PPL carpark at approx 7.20pm.

    3.  It was a dark and wet night, so instead of going to the payment machine and trying to work out how much to pay,  I went over to a parking attendant, (who was in the process of issuing a ticket to another car) to ask what the charges were, he informed me they were £3 for one hour or £6 to park until 8am the following morning.

    4.  I went back to the car and my wife gave me 6 one pound coins from the purse of change we keep for parking meters, I inserted them into the payment machine, took the ticket and placed it on the dash, happy that although we only needed 2-3 hours we had plenty of time in hand if needed.

    5.  There was no indication from the machine that anything was amiss.

    6.  When we returned to the car after the show I was shocked to see a parking notice on the windscreen, and at first thought that somebody had placed it there as a joke but soon realised it wasn’t.

    7.  When I examined the ticket I’d paid for I found it showed the machine had issued a ticket to the value of only £5, which was printed on the ticket, and that the ticket only allowed one hour parking time.

    8.  I was confused by this because I’d paid £6 and there was no £5 tariff and in fact, as I found out later, there was a notice on the machine stating it will only issue a ticket when the correct fee is inserted, this is clearly incorrect.
    I would have thought the machine would have issued a refund which would have alerted me to the problem.

    9.  My assertion is that the machine was faulty and failed to register all of the coins that I'd inserted, or that it had rejected one of my coins, which went unnoticed by me, but still issued a ticket for an invalid amount.

    10. My appeal to PPL was rejected because they said the ticket I displayed was incorrect, this is the fault of their machine, not me, they stated I should have checked the ticket; If I’d bought a ticket for a shorter period I would normally check it to make sure I returned in time, but because I’d bought one which was far in excess of the time I needed I didn’t automatically do that, also it was dark and wet and I wasn’t wearing my reading glasses.
    I trusted the machine to operate correctly.

    11. I contacted the claimants solicitor to request a read-out from the machine in order to see if there was any record from the day in question, this was refused on the grounds that PPL didn’t own the machine.

    Abuse of process – the quantum

    12. In addition to the disputed Parking Charge Notice claim amount of £100, the
    Claimant has added a sum of £60. 
    The added £60 constitutes double recovery and the court is invited to find the quantum claimed is
    false and an abuse of process as was found by District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ
    Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) in Excel vs Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, a similar case
    in which £60 had been added to a parking charge, heard in July 2020
    The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with an improper
    collateral purpose. Leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.
    13. After hearing this ‘test case’, which followed numerous Judges repeatedly disallowing
    the £60 sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims,
    Judge Jackson at the Bradford County Court went into significant detail before concluding
    that parking operators (such as the Claimant in this case) are seeking to circumvent CPR
    27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Others, like Judge Hickinbottom
    of the same court area, have since echoed Judge Jackson’s words and struck out dozens of
    cases. Judge Hickinbottom recently stated "I find that striking out this claim is the only
    appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown".

     Evidence of payment

    13.  I have attached a copy of the disputed ticket along with the photo taken by the parking attendant of the ticket in place. 

    As you can see from the attendants photo, only the time is legible, maybe if he had been able to read the amount paid he would not have issued the penalty ticket.

  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 28 June 2021 at 9:10AM
    In 13 ( or should it be 14 or 15 ? ) , the PPL parking attendant did not issue a penalty ticket or Penalty notice , he actually issued a notice to driver PCN ( NTD parking charge notice ) , a windscreen PCN

    PPL are not allowed to issue penalties ( or fines for that matter )
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,296 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    2.  I arrived, along with my wife arrived at the PPL carpark at approx 7.20pm.
    Change that to...
    2.  My wife and I arrived at the PPL carpark at approximately 7.20pm.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,019 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 27 June 2021 at 11:21PM
    Your first version has 2 x #12 and this version now has 2 x #13.

    Also, you've deleted the fact that Excel v Wilkinson is appended (the full transcript) as a PDF, as @jrhys did.  Your version reads like you are not attaching it as an exhibit.


    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Jimsnap
    Jimsnap Posts: 103 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Your first version has 2 x #12 and this version now has 2 x #13.

    Also, you've deleted the fact that Excel v Wilkinson is appended (the full transcript) as a PDF, as @jrhys did.  Your version reads like you are not attaching it as an exhibit.


    Ah, I didn't think I needed to attach it, also I can't separate it from the rest of @jrhys' WS to make it a separate PDF. I'll try doing it as series of screen grabs and make those into a PDF, that should work
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