POPLA appeal rejected

Gazdok

Hello,
I need some advice please. I booked parking via yourparkingspace.co.uk last year for 2 days in the same place. The details of the place including a  landline phone number matched a hotel. I spoke to reception staff before arriving and on arrival on both days and was told twice it is o.k. A week later I received a parking charge notice for only one of the 2 days from parkingeye. I emailed the hotel and have not had a reply, and appealed to PE, which was rejected. I went on to POPLA and that was rejected now - the letter is attached. I sent the receipts, and described that I had been instructed to park where I parked and yet POPLA said "F.O." Is POPLA really impartial?
The landowner has since been taken off yourparkingspace.
I am not willing to pay a fine for something I have not committed, i.e parking in the wrong place or without paying.

What option have I got after POPLA?
The POPLA email mentioned citizenadvice. I tried to ring, but could not get through to anyone. On the website it is mentioned to
a) wait for POPLA to take me to court or
b) pay under protest and go to the small claims court.
Is any of this viable?

Regards
Ralf
 

Ralph-y

"What option have I got after POPLA?"

only three

1 Pay ... not recommended

2 appeal to the hotel / land owner ... recommended

3 Read up on defending a court case ...recommended

 the newbies thread/ descussion

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou

"The POPLA email mentioned citizenadvice. I tried to ring, but could not get through to anyone."

waste of time CA are quite good for some issues but not private parking scams

"On the website it is mentioned to"

a) wait for POPLA to take me to court or

POPLA do not take any one to court a legal firm will do it on behalf of ParkingLie

"b) pay under protest and go to the small claims court."

go to the small claims court and win. the forum has a very good record at helping to defend cases , so please  read up in readiness for your letter before action.

 the newbies thread/ descussion

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou

Ralph

D_P_Dance

 Is POPLA really impartial?

Absolutely not.  It will not consider mitigation of any sort, it does not understand Primacy of Contract, it believes ATA codes of practice are sacrosant, it struggles with POFA, it denies the Equality Act.  Its rulings are often very seriously flawed imo.   Only a judge can decide whether a PCN  has any merit.  In your case, PE signs are usually not fit for purpose and are being thrown out by judges, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

BTW, it is not a fine, please read the stickies.

MistyZ

Complain to the hotel again.  Who did you complain to the first time?  You need the manager at the very least but ideally the CEO if it's a chain.  Escalate this either by contacting someone higher up the food chain or by packing more indignation into your email.  Actually, do both.  

Like you say, nobody did anything wrong and the hotel are essentially complicit in P.E.'s efforts to extort money from you.  I wouldn't put that in a complaint exactly, but I'd imply it with a certain icy politeness. 

POPLA is flaky.  Always worth doing but .... I'd like to see stats showing the percentage of people who win at the court stage having previously had their appeals rejected by POPLA, I'd imagine the percentage would be quite high.  

Gazdok

Thank you for the replies.
 I have got some more questions then.
Ralph-y - If you say "prepare for the court case", do you suggest I get the ball rolling or wait for PE?

D_P_Dance - I cannot really comment on the signs. I did not even notice them when I pulled up and did not take pictures. They sent some photographs to POPLA as part of there evidence. The hotel is about 40 miles away from me and I did not plan to go there again. On google street view you can see some signs.

MistyZ - The hotel has a dire reputation on Tripadvisor - I only found out after this started. I would not read Tripadvisor for a parking space. The hotel website mentions a email address which I used twice but did not get any reply. A phone number gets you to reception.

D_P_Dance

The signs are likely to win for you in court, do not ignore them.

Gazdok

I looked through their response to POPLA re. the signs. If it is true what they say there must be loads of signs, but I simply did not look for them and did not notice any. After all I had booked parking and did not have any need to check the and read 14 or so signs in the yard behind the hotel.

Should I apply to the small claims court to start proceedings?

MistyZ

Gazdok said:

Should I apply to the small claims court to start proceedings?

Haha, that would make a nice change!  But as far as I'm aware the ball is in P.E.'s court.

As for there being 'loads of signs', they would say that wouldn't they?  They always say that!  And anyway, quantity is not quality.  Capture some screenshots and critique them according to the POPLA section on signage in the Newbies' thread.  (Which I guess you used?). I think it's best to have images of current signs anyway, just in case they change before any court proceedings.  

Are you escalating / persevering with the complaint to the hotel?  I see no reason to drop that.

nosferatu1001

How can you claim against them? THEY claim YOU owe them money, so THEY have to start a court claim. 
You could raise a claim against them yuorself - breach of data protection maybe? 
Make it clear to the hotel that, given you paid for parking using.... their AGENT accessing your data unlawfully means the HOTEL has broken the data protection act 2018, and should they not instruct their AGENT to cancel the charge within 14 days, you will take all legal remedies available to you, including a claim for damages startign at £750 (vidal-hall v google 2015) 
You suggest they accept this generous offer of yours, as should their agent raise a claim you will counterclaim, and there will be no notice. They will be enjoined as a part 20 co-defendant to your counterclaim, and willbe the subject of a witness summons to explain why they took money for parking but still allowed their agent to harass you. 

sharhar

Just wondering why you haven't involved yourparkingspace. I understand they have taken the space owner from the site but that's not enough from them. Your contract was with yourparkingspace as you paid to yourparkingspace and not to the space owner. Yourparkingspace.co.uk should pay the parking charge notice and it's all sorted (unless you parked in a wrong space which is whole new conversation).

Gazdok

Sorry Accidentally started another thread, so some duplication in this post.

Hello,
I am looking for some advice / help a bit down the line from a PCN from PE.
I received a fine / demand from them back in November.
I had parked at a small and a bit shabby - didn't know this in advance - hotel where I had booked parking for 2 consecutive days to attend a conference. I did not stay at the hotel. I had called the hotel reception beforehand and on the day to check for directions and was told where to park - behind the hotel. On both days I parked there and reported to reception both days and was told that it was o.k.
A week later I received a ticket for ONE of the days but never for the other. Just to mention the PE letter was their standard letter and had all the legal clauses in mentioning POFA and proper signage. I contacted the online parking site, who advised to get in touch with the hotel. I contacted the hotel but never got a reply. So I had to use the PE appeal process which was rejected. And so was the POPLA one. I had admitted to being the driver from the beginning. POPLA also mentioned that as the online parking site referred to hotel by part of its old name containing the term "council" as it used to be council owned that I MUST have been in the wrong place. Apart from that they also upheld that my registration did not appear in a white list. Hotel guests are entered into this list. They quoted PE vs Beavis - which I think is not really relevant here but I had said that £60 / 100 is a little steep. They did accept though that I had booked parking.
After the POPLA rejection I had another conference close enough by this hotel - 15 miles away - and I decided to make a detour and go to the hotel again. I told reception staff and they were surprised I got a ticket and said I was the first one apparently they have heard of.... They told me that the terminal to put the registration in is behind the desk and only accessible to hotel staff and that my online booking should automatically have triggered an entry into this white list. I also asked why I did not get a reply to my email in November and was told that that was an old email address and not in use any more - it is still published on the hotel website.
On this day in March the reception lady wrote an email to PE requesting to cancel the PCN and 2 weeks later PE replied "No" because I had been rejected by POPLA. Another email request to cancel the ticket was made in April by the hotel as I was a guest at the hotel but PE refused the landowner's request again saying that they could not now cancel as they had already incurred costs. I then got a Letter Before County Court Claim and sent this off this week - I had not seen your version, but I still replied on 3 pages but not very legalized english.
My letter back to PE must have crossed with an offer letter they sent reducing the ticket to £60 with a prejudice to cost heading. I am not taking up their extremely generous offer. I would rather want to present them with my counter claim for costs!!

I am not a legal person and if I used your template I would probably only understand half and if I had to quote any of this in a hearing I would probably start a disastrous process and talk gobbledygook. 
What will happen next??
Are we heading for court?

I forgot to say I made a SAR on the PE site itself.