Bought clocked car from dealer

maximus000

Mileage checked via power steering module shows 159k kilometers. Mileage shown on the dashboard 61k miles. 
Mileage when bought 40k miles.
Mot history consistent. MOT completed internally by the minicab company (biggest minicab company in London). 
Sorry I might confused you guys saying my brother bought it from a dealer. What I meant to say is Motor Trader.
Ford local dealership said they can only check mileage by visually reading it from the dashboard.
We phoned Ford UK technical support and they confirmed this model stores data in power steering module and although it's extremely difficult to reveal the data from the module using specialist software it is possible and from what we told them they are assuming the procedure the independent specialist followed is correct to obtain the data.
Now waiting to receive an official letter from ford UK just confirming all above on paper.
Our solicitor strongly advised us not to give the car back to the trader for inspection before some sorts of agreement are made. This is the only advise from the solicitor as it costs a lot of money to get them more involved and my brother is just not ready to spend further multiple thousands of pounds for something that I believe should be presuit by the authorities. 

Do I understand it correctly? Clocking and selling is illegal. All illegal activities should be dealt with by authorities, not in civil cases. 
If not, it's not really illegal is it? 

mattyprice4004

Ahhhh, that makes much more sense! That’s some large mileage discrepancy; the way I read it was only a difference of 25k. 

With regards to legality, they can be prosecuted for an offence - but if clocking isn’t actually illegal in itself, you’re relying on a civil claim to recoup your money. 

maximus000

Different miles to km calculators show different values. Even if it was 25k miles that's over 50% of the mileage deleted. The difference however is around 40k miles and the car was sold with 40k on the clock.
So is clocking and selling on legal or not? I'm getting more and more confused.
Where I come from it's enough to call the police and after reviewing the evidence and interviewing parties the public prosecutor is taking care of it. How different can it be in UK?

neilmcl

maximus000 said:

Do I understand it correctly? Clocking and selling is illegal. All illegal activities should be dealt with by authorities, not in civil cases. 
If not, it's not really illegal is it? 

"Clocking" in itself isn't illegal, but it is if done deliberately to sell on without disclosing the fact, that would be fraud. However, there's no proof that the dealer has done this themselves so as stated this comes down to a simple breach in contract for selling the car not as described.

Fosterdog

Does the car not have a service history with it? Most fleet vehicles are regularly serviced (beyond manufacturer recommendations in my experience) and mileage is recorded at each one. What does the service history show on this car?

Although things should be sold as described there is a much wider leeway when it comes to B2B purchases and the purchaser doing due diligence, at 20k miles in just two months I'm assuming your brother uses this vehicle for business as that is over 300 miles of driving each day.

As to your questions on illegality, it is not illegal to clock a car, however it is illegal to sell a clocked car without declaring that it has been clocked. The trader your brother bought from didn't know it was clocked as they bought it from auction, who in turn bought it from the previous owner (or sold on their behalf), the one in the wrong here is the previous owner so criminal action cannot be taken against the trader as they are also victims in this. The best you will hope for is that they are civilly liable.

DoaM

The above is correct, but does not absolve the trader from their legal obligations ... as the expert they are expected to know such things about the vehicle, they cannot use the "I didn't know" defence. It's still a civil claim though for goods sold not as described.

born_again

>>Ford local dealership said they can only check mileage by visually reading it from the dashboard.
We phoned Ford UK technical support and they confirmed this model stores data in power steering module and although it's extremely difficult to reveal the data from the module using specialist software it is possible and from what we told them they are assuming the procedure the independent specialist followed is correct to obtain the data.<<

So a Ford dealership can't read this data, but a 3rd party can...
I smell bull brown stuff.....

pinkshoes

What is odd about this is why a mini cab firm would sell on a vehicle that had only done 40k miles. Normally they would be sold on with 80k to 100k miles on the clock...

Surely a dealer would then be suspicious about why a low mileage cab was being sold on??

Geodark

Usually the dashboard and the display are the same - its the value in the ecu you usually check against. the one in the dash can be changed legally if a new dash has been fitted and it has been set to match the mileage in the ecu

maximus000

The car was sold with full service history from the minicab company. No dashboard or power steering replacement indicated in the paperwork. Private trader didn't disclose the fact the car was previously used as private hire minicab, only when my brother recognised MOT and service book from this well known minicab company the trader admitted.
Born_again Local dealer can't read the data from MCU or steering module, private party can so as Ford UK Technical Support. What's so surprising here? Is this the first time you've been exposed to local dealer incompetence? Wake up please...

Guys I don't think some of you are right. My brother shouldn't care who was the previous owner before the trader. Whether it was the minicab company who clocked it or some other owner should there be any, it shouldn't matter. End of the day It's the trader who sold it clocked without disclosing the information and it's the trader who should take the car back and pay for the repairs.
If the trader wants to speak to the people he bought it from he can, but this has got nothing to do with my brother?

Ok, so to get to the point you guys are saying there's no government body in UK responsible for dealing with such cases, and civil case would be the only solution? 
Sad...but it is what it is