New "Have a Look at This" thread

BarelySentientAI

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

RHemmings

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

I would say that an end terraced house being described under terraced houses clearly make it the case that an end terraced is end terraced.

If you extract the definition of semi-detached from the RICS source referred to by @BikingBud and look at it standalone, then there is some ambiguity created. But, the definition was not posted alone, but along with other definitions. One of which is specifically 'end terraced'. That context makes it clear that an end terrace is a terraced house. The page literally says it. And, @BikingBud posted both definitions in their post. Hence, the post wasn't ambiguous either. 

Hence, I can't see the point of extracting that one definition from the context of that page and arguing about whether a singular 'building or dwelling' can include a number of dwellings in a terrace or not. The definition is presented in a set of definitions, and is clear in that context. 

RHemmings

So, did you have any intention that your 'guide price' was even remotely accurate? 

House for sale, £280k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150236294



Same house, same agent, and 'guide price' of £140k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150234272



So, what happens if I make an offer of £160k, which is over 10% over their guide price. (Rhetorical question). 

BarelySentientAI

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

I would say that an end terraced house being described under terraced houses clearly make it the case that an end terraced is end terraced.

If you extract the definition of semi-detached from the RICS source referred to by @BikingBud and look at it standalone, then there is some ambiguity created. But, the definition was not posted alone, but along with other definitions. One of which is specifically 'end terraced'. That context makes it clear that an end terrace is a terraced house. The page literally says it. And, @BikingBud posted both definitions in their post. Hence, the post wasn't ambiguous either. 

Hence, I can't see the point of extracting that one definition from the context of that page and arguing about whether a singular 'building or dwelling' can include a number of dwellings in a terrace or not. The definition is presented in a set of definitions, and is clear in that context. 

Definition by exclusion then.  It can only be one of the things in the list, and because it is included directly elsewhere, it cannot be implied to be included a second time.

Dandie89

RHemmings said:

So, did you have any intention that your 'guide price' was even remotely accurate? 

House for sale, £280k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150236294



Same house, same agent, and 'guide price' of £140k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150234272



So, what happens if I make an offer of £160k, which is over 10% over their guide price. (Rhetorical question). 

The second offering is 50% shared ownership https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150234272

MaiTai

RHemmings said:

So, did you have any intention that your 'guide price' was even remotely accurate? 

House for sale, £280k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150236294



Same house, same agent, and 'guide price' of £140k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150234272



So, what happens if I make an offer of £160k, which is over 10% over their guide price. (Rhetorical question). 

 A prime example of why reading the particulars properly is essential……!!

Bookworm105

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

end of terrace can score over a "mere" semi if there is a passage between the mid terrace properties so the end terrace actually does not share a downstairs party wall, 
less chance of having nextdoor's choice of TV programme "coming at you" through the semi d's party wall if mirrored construction 
sadly upstairs bedroom noises do not escape that problem 

BikingBud

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

Do you classify a zebra as a horse as they both have four legs or do you consider that it meets the classification of zebra because it has stripes and therefore cannot be a horse?

There is a terrace of houses, determined by the fact that one house is annexed to another on two sides, so once you have three or more houses connected and in a row they are all terraced. Two end terraces and one mid terrace. The houses by the definition are in a terrace and therefore none of them can be a semi detached.

Of course people will always try to dress up what  might be considered of lower value and standing, calling them town houses, because they are 3 or 4 story terraces, or mews cottages because there is some concept of quaintness that living in a flat over a garage that you do not own and cannot control will never convey.

BarelySentientAI

BikingBud said:

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

Do you classify a zebra as a horse as they both have four legs or do you consider that it meets the classification of zebra because it has stripes and therefore cannot be a horse?

There is a terrace of houses, determined by the fact that one house is annexed to another on two sides, so once you have three or more houses connected and in a row they are all terraced. Two end terraces and one mid terrace. The houses by the definition are in a terrace and therefore none of them can be a semi detached.

Of course people will always try to dress up what  might be considered of lower value and standing, calling them town houses, because they are 3 or 4 story terraces, or mews cottages because there is some concept of quaintness that living in a flat over a garage that you do not own and cannot control will never convey.

Yes, lets consider a pointless and irrelevant strawman argument that doesn't actually represent the situation.

Or lets not.

RHemmings

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

I would say that an end terraced house being described under terraced houses clearly make it the case that an end terraced is end terraced.

If you extract the definition of semi-detached from the RICS source referred to by @BikingBud and look at it standalone, then there is some ambiguity created. But, the definition was not posted alone, but along with other definitions. One of which is specifically 'end terraced'. That context makes it clear that an end terrace is a terraced house. The page literally says it. And, @BikingBud posted both definitions in their post. Hence, the post wasn't ambiguous either. 

Hence, I can't see the point of extracting that one definition from the context of that page and arguing about whether a singular 'building or dwelling' can include a number of dwellings in a terrace or not. The definition is presented in a set of definitions, and is clear in that context. 

Definition by exclusion then.  It can only be one of the things in the list, and because it is included directly elsewhere, it cannot be implied to be included a second time.

I wouldn't say it's 'definition by exclusion'. I'd say it's definition by having plain and simple text that an end-terraced house is a terraced house.