New "Have a Look at This" thread

BarelySentientAI

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

I would say that an end terraced house being described under terraced houses clearly make it the case that an end terraced is end terraced.

If you extract the definition of semi-detached from the RICS source referred to by @BikingBud and look at it standalone, then there is some ambiguity created. But, the definition was not posted alone, but along with other definitions. One of which is specifically 'end terraced'. That context makes it clear that an end terrace is a terraced house. The page literally says it. And, @BikingBud posted both definitions in their post. Hence, the post wasn't ambiguous either. 

Hence, I can't see the point of extracting that one definition from the context of that page and arguing about whether a singular 'building or dwelling' can include a number of dwellings in a terrace or not. The definition is presented in a set of definitions, and is clear in that context. 

Definition by exclusion then.  It can only be one of the things in the list, and because it is included directly elsewhere, it cannot be implied to be included a second time.

I wouldn't say it's 'definition by exclusion'. I'd say it's definition by having plain and simple text that an end-terraced house is a terraced house. 

...and therefore excluding the possibility that it could also fall under any other definition.

I bet RICS somewhere have a definition of "house", "building" and "dwelling".  And I'm sure you'd agree that the plain and simple text doesn't exclude an end-terrace being any of those things.

Derailing the thread now, and we are debating semantics when we agree about the practicality anyway, so I'll leave it there.

RHemmings

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

I would say that an end terraced house being described under terraced houses clearly make it the case that an end terraced is end terraced.

If you extract the definition of semi-detached from the RICS source referred to by @BikingBud and look at it standalone, then there is some ambiguity created. But, the definition was not posted alone, but along with other definitions. One of which is specifically 'end terraced'. That context makes it clear that an end terrace is a terraced house. The page literally says it. And, @BikingBud posted both definitions in their post. Hence, the post wasn't ambiguous either. 

Hence, I can't see the point of extracting that one definition from the context of that page and arguing about whether a singular 'building or dwelling' can include a number of dwellings in a terrace or not. The definition is presented in a set of definitions, and is clear in that context. 

Definition by exclusion then.  It can only be one of the things in the list, and because it is included directly elsewhere, it cannot be implied to be included a second time.

I wouldn't say it's 'definition by exclusion'. I'd say it's definition by having plain and simple text that an end-terraced house is a terraced house. 

...and therefore excluding the possibility that it could also fall under any other definition.

I bet RICS somewhere have a definition of "house", "building" and "dwelling".  And I'm sure you'd agree that the plain and simple text doesn't exclude an end-terrace being any of those things.

Derailing the thread now, and we are debating semantics when we agree about the practicality anyway, so I'll leave it there.

Yes, I agree that we are derailing the thread and arguing semantics. As per my recent post I think the page is quite clear as a whole, and easy to read. I don't have anything to add to that. 

RHemmings

Dandie89 said:

RHemmings said:

So, did you have any intention that your 'guide price' was even remotely accurate? 

House for sale, £280k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150236294



Same house, same agent, and 'guide price' of £140k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150234272



So, what happens if I make an offer of £160k, which is over 10% over their guide price. (Rhetorical question). 

The second offering is 50% shared ownership https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150234272

Thanks for pointing that out. As I think will be clear, I missed that completely. 

Dandie89

RHemmings said:

Thanks for pointing that out. As I think will be clear, I missed that completely. 

Maybe still qualifies as a "Have a Look at This"

BikingBud

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

SadieO said:

Dandie89 said:

When we bought our end terraced house in 1995, it was noted as a semi detached for some reason. 

There is not really any material difference is there? Just one shared wall, side access, everything you might be expecting I would have thought.  I expect it is a lot to do with terrace and semi-detached being the only choice of search options on Rightmove. 

Of course, technically you are not lying if you called an end-terrace a semi-detatched, as it is only attached on one side! However in my experience, the style can be quite different though, with terraces often being narrower, only having a small yard at the back, and opening directly onto the street or just with a tiny path/yard at the front. We moved from a terrace to a semi and the semi is much wider and more square, and has a drive and a front and back garden. Of course this is not the same for all terraces and semis, but that is the difference in my mind!

My thoughts followed by quotes which I then looked up via RICS, a reasonable source for correct terminology for buildings.

A terrace house is a house in a terrace, be that end-terrace or mid-terrace they are still houses in a terrace.

Terraced house
A house annexed to another house on two sides forming part of a row of similar houses each with its own frontage to a public road.
Mid Terrace used to describe a house situated in the middle of a row of similar houses.
End of terrace used to describe a house situated at the end of a row of houses only joined on one side to a joining property.

A semi-detached house is one of two conjoined houses.

Semi detached
A dwelling attached to another building or dwelling by one common party wall. Often  each house's layout is a mirror image of the other.

But never let that stymie debate on the internet or dare to challenge the opinion of the highly-skilled, well-educated, honest body of professionals known as Estate Agents.

Which part of that definition of semi-detached excludes end terraces?

I mean, I agree with you, but that definition does not.

Do you classify a zebra as a horse as they both have four legs or do you consider that it meets the classification of zebra because it has stripes and therefore cannot be a horse?

There is a terrace of houses, determined by the fact that one house is annexed to another on two sides, so once you have three or more houses connected and in a row they are all terraced. Two end terraces and one mid terrace. The houses by the definition are in a terrace and therefore none of them can be a semi detached.

Of course people will always try to dress up what  might be considered of lower value and standing, calling them town houses, because they are 3 or 4 story terraces, or mews cottages because there is some concept of quaintness that living in a flat over a garage that you do not own and cannot control will never convey.

Yes, lets consider a pointless and irrelevant strawman argument that doesn't actually represent the situation.

Or lets not.

Not sure how using an example of an accurate and definitive taxonomy, something that is applied to building, is a straw man but hey, let's leave it there cheaters will cheat and EAs will lie!

horsewithnoname

Rightmove don’t distinguish between semis and end of terrace, which is annoying because as you say, they are different things, but I’d prefer an end terrace to a mid terrace, so it would be good if they’d distinguish between terrace types. 

RHemmings

Dandie89 said:

RHemmings said:

Thanks for pointing that out. As I think will be clear, I missed that completely. 

Maybe still qualifies as a "Have a Look at This"

Or, have a look at what I missed even though it's in the first few lines of the description  

Owain_Moneysaver

Many period features, well features of the period
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150265031
Sadly no photo of the blue bathroom suite, but crafters will like this one. 

rebs

Lovely spot the cat... and I don't mean the painting 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150235853?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

mark_cycling00

rebs said:

Lovely spot the cat... and I don't mean the painting 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150235853?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

Amazing how the outside is soaking wet from rain and yet the sky is so blue. Just the same couple of white clouds in every single photo.

The met office have named this cloud phenomenon "Strato-photoshop-ulus"