PCN received after friend parked car in my private parking space

Vermicious_Knad

Hi,
I have read through the newbies post and found out as much info as i can but still unsure of a few things.

My vehicle had a PCN placed on it after it being parked in my own designated space in a residential development by a friend of mine.
The site is permit based and there was a permit displayed although the PPC has taken photos from a particular angIe so the permit does not show (extremely poor quality pictures and clearly done deliberately when the permit is perfectly visible). I understand the need to inform the PPC of the driver's details but the driver has now moved back home abroad.
Do i simply have to supply the PPC with the details i have? I have not been able to get a reply from the driver since letting them know a PCN was issued. How can i prove the driver was the one using the vehicle prior to the PCN being issued? I don't know of a way i can prove that and the vehicle was returned to my designated space. Any thoughts on what could happen if the PPC do not get a response after me providing them with driver details?

PPC have already acquired registered keeper details and sent me a "NTK".
I feel i could take this all the way to court and potentially win with the PPCs shoddy evidence where i can prove a permit was in fact displayed. Would i really need to do that I don't have the time or energy unless this is the only way to resolve it and stop these scumbags.

Redx

yes you can give them the driver details and their service address, even if its abroad, that way you are covered by POFA

BUT ideally you complain to the managing agent for the property and get it cancelled however

what can happen is the PPC taking you to the small claims court using MCOL (AFTER NUMEROUS DEBT COLLECTION LETTERS AND THREATS), there are hundreds of them on here

yes you would have to do that, if you dont get the management company to cancel the pcn (which is your best option for a quick resolution)

check what your lease or AST says about displaying a permit anyway, regardless

Vermicious_Knad

Thanks,

When you say, "that way you are covered by POFA" what do you actually mean?
I guess my concern is that if PPC attempt to contact the driver abroad and then cannot get a reply (as I havent so far which is a bit "crappy" of the driver) or they just say they cannot get a reply is there a need for me to do or prove anything further? Unsure how i would be able to tbh, other than making sure

I have already checked the AST which mentions nothing about the need to display a permit and the lease too says nothing specifically about displaying a permit although the wording of several sections is sufficiently legal for me not to be sure how absolute this is.

Management company seem totally disinterested and say the PPC has a robust appeals process! From most of the posts i have read this is just about rejecting appeals regardless.

It doesn't even factor in that there was a permit displayed and I have photos to show that a permit was displayed. The PPC have just attempted to take photos from a dodgy angle with a really poor camera.

Would it help to post some of the relevant content of the lease that is difficult to interpret?

Thanks so far

Half_way

You need to check on the lease/agreement with regards to the space - what does it say about parking, if you have the right to use it and there is no mention of permits then forget about any signage or anything else, and ask yourself if it is your space then why do you need to give yourself permission to use it? do you need a permit to flush the lavatory after 10pm?
If you have the right to use the space and it is indeed yours then a third party can not then come along and remove that right regardless of signage/permits etc.
You should also make your position clear - that you have only been display a permit as a courtesy and not as an obligation and you may stop displaying the permit at anytime at your discretion

Vermicious_Knad

Hi,

Following the advice from the two replies above I have looked at the lease and AST again and cannot find any "specific" wording that states i have to display a permit. BUT there are sections that i am not sure about. Any advice on this from anyone legally minded would be much appreciated.
Whilst it may be that i am covered under POFA if i name the driver of the vehicle the PPC are regularly putting PCNs on residents cars who have permits and are parked in their own spaces, it would be good to understand where we can collectively take this.

In the lease:
"Schedule x - The granted rights" there is a section "Use of Allocated Parking Space" which states:
"Subject to the provisions of paragraph x of Schedule x a right to park an authorised vehicle on each allocated parking space (if any) to the exclusion of all others to use the allocated parking space or any other parking space(s) allocated by the lessor from time to time in replacement of the original space in accordance with the regulations referred to in this lease"

"Schedule x - The Lessee's Covenants - Parking: Not to park or allow to be parked any car van or other vehicle on any part of the managed land or the estate (other than in such places (if any) as shall be provided therefore and save only to such extent and subject to such conditions as may be permitted by law and by such regulations as may be imposed by the lessor or the manager it's managing agents)

The only thing stated in the AST is as follows:

To park private vehicle(s) only at the Property.
To park in the space allocated to the Property, if the Tenant is allocated a car parking space.
To park in the garage or the driveway to the Property if applicable.
To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
Not to park any vehicle at the Property that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.

For someone not legally minded it sounds like there is no direct instruction to have to display a permit, BUT the second extract from the lease seems to say they can pretty much impose any regulations they see fit (i.e. the need to display a permit)

Could any one with more experience of this and contract law help me understand whether this is something as residents we are able to defend against?

Coupon-mad

BUT the second extract from the lease seems to say they can pretty much impose any regulations they see fit (i.e. the need to display a permit)

Could any one with more experience of this and contract law help me understand whether this is something as residents we are able to defend against?

Such regulations have to be 'reasonable' and not interfere with the rights and easements already enjoyed by leaseholders.

Search the forum for Union Jack to see a worked example - in fact there are shedloads of threads just like yours.

Lots of Judges seem to be in the side of a resident against a PPC in these cases.

The_Deep

Imposing a PPC in a residential car park is rarely "reasonable". These companies often/usually harass bona fide residents and their presence can lower rental values and adversely affect asking prices. PPCs have no place in residential car parks. Please read this

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Your leases/AST would appear to take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies[/FONT]

Vermicious_Knad

I am after some advice on how best to take both the MA and PPC to court after receiving a second PCN allegedly this time for not being authorised to park!   
MA has refused to provide a copy of the contract between them and the PPC (already heading down the primacy of contract thing if it gets to court).
I am actually now being harassed by the PPC who will likely have obtained my details from DVLA under false pretences the first time around. It is not so much that i am concerned i cannot win this in court but is there a plan of action to deter these nuggets from putting ticket after ticket on the vehicle? I am reluctant to write a complaint/appeal giving them ALL the reasons why they have no basis to ticket the vehicle but dont want to provide them with a checklist of things to put right. 
Other residents have displayed permits provided by the PPC (UKCPM) to then be ticketed because apparently their permits are faded  
UKCPM are basically saying - the permits we gave you are not adequate so now pay us more money to get a new permit so we dont charge you another £100 for parking in your own space we dont even have a right to ticket you in anyway, all after you pay us the £100 we have already charged you! 
As mentioned before MA are disinterested trying to pretend it's a fair and reasonable service so I would really love to be able to take both of these losers to court. 
I would be looking at them breaching my data rights by obtaining details from DVLA.
Harassing me by attempting to find different reasons to put a PCN on the vehicle.
Can anyone please help with how best to go about this and what constitutes unreasonable behaviour?

Thanks as always

D_P_Dance

Have you read this?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

what does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Also, this thread may contain useful informatiom

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

nosferatu1001

INSTRUCT the MA to cease and desist their trespass (by their agent) agsint your land and your property. Remind them they have no authority to derogate from your grant (via lease) and had no authority to "sell" your space to their agent. Give them 14 days to revoke any and all outstanding "parking charges", unlawfully issued by their agent, and to promise not to interfere with your lease again.
If they fail to do so, you will take them to court without further notice for:
- breach of lease - you will need to define how they have done so
- trespass
- breach of DPA2018 - their agent had no reaosnable cause, as they have not contracted with the landholder (thats you!), and so unlawfully obtained your details. AS they are the agent of your MA, they are your MAs responsibiltiy. 
- harassment using these illegally obtained details. 
State you will seek both damages to the sum of £1000 and injunction against them or their agents from trespassing in the future. There is at least one case here where this happened. 

Vermicious_Knad

Thanks both,
To be clear i am not a leaseholder i am a tenant. The MA have attempted to dodge any responsibility for anything so far and have ignored my requests for them to cease and desist. Already been down the road of explaining the law of agency to them and their agent is their responsibility. Parking spaces are not owned but allocated to residents.
There is still nothing in the lease or AST stating i need to display a permit.
I have received 2 PCNs from this PPC so far the first of which was subject to a ToL which they have completely ignored and a letter from a Debt recovery prankster has followed. Usual MO, hiked to £160 in an attempt at double recovery!
MA have already confirmed the contract is between the management company and PPC. 
Offence under the landlords and tenants act is a good idea.
@nosferatu1001 why do you suggest a sum of £1000 in particular, whilst i do not believe their agents are trespassing (because neither I nor the leaseholder own the space) they have obtained details from the DVLA fraudulently twice now!
Can this be claimed for twice now and does anyone know the best way to initiate a court case against them?