PCN received after friend parked car in my private parking space

Coupon-mad

A court case is simple, you send a LBC first then file a claim using MCOL (see NEWBIES thread for acronyms) or wait for UKCPM to sue you then counterclaim at the same time as defending.

But to save all that, get UKCPM removed asap.  Read this and get the LEASEHOLDERS up in arms:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5997200/pcm-company-introduced

NeilCr

Vermicious_Knad

MA have already confirmed the contract is between the management company and PPC. 

Can we clarify this please

Managing Agent and Management Company are two different animals.

Are you saying that the Managing Agent has confirmed the contract is between themselves  and the PPC. Or is it that the contract with the PPC is actually with the Management Company (ManCo) . ManCo are the folks who own the freehold and appoint the Managing Agent. They can often be the made up of the owners of the properties on the estate.

The MA can sign a contract for and on behalf of the ManCo but the ManCo would be the party to it.

Just need to be clear if you are thinking of taking someone to court. Plus if it is a residents ManCo you might be able to persuade a director to cancel the ticket

nosferatu1001

Trespass to goods is still trespass, OP

NeilCr

nosferatu1001 said:

Trespass to goods is still trespass, OP

Indeed 

But will it not matter whose agent the PPC  is. In an earlier response you were talking about taking the MA to court. If it turns out that the contract is with the ManCo then I would have thought it was them OP should be going after

Vermicious_Knad

Thanks for the response both, 
Exact wording from the MA was "contract is between UKCPM and MCL for the management of all parking".
Dont trust their honesty anyway. 
Taking either or both to court would suit me. Is it possible to wait to see if they continue to put a counter-claim in, i dont want to lose the opportunity to take them to court. Or, would I just send a LBA anyway if they did cancel, not totally sure how it works.
Thanks 

NeilCr

Vermicious_Knad said:

Thanks for the response both, 
Exact wording from the MA was "contract is between UKCPM and MCL for the management of all parking".
Dont trust their honesty anyway. 
Taking either or both to court would suit me. Is it possible to wait to see if they continue to put a counter-claim in, i dont want to lose the opportunity to take them to court. Or, would I just send a LBA anyway if they did cancel, not totally sure how it works.
Thanks 

Yes. Sorry. I wasn't trying to be picky - it's just MAs and ManCos get mixed up on here quite often!

Is it the MCL in Leicester. If it is they aren't very big are they?

I am anti own space ticketing so hope you get on well. Others have much more experience and knowledge so I'll leave them to answer your counter claim question

Good luck!

Vermicious_Knad

So...this has now turned into a campaign of harassment against me! 
My 2nd PCN was the one first mentioned above where liability was transferred and the driver's details provided to UKCPM who acknowledged receipt of the ToL. The next thing i know I receive a DRP letter claiming i owe them £160 after completely ignoring the ToL. 
Since my last post and MA denying any ability to influence their agent (UKCPM) I have received a further 3 PCNs within 2 weeks of the DRP letter!
The PCN received where ToL was ignored was followed by a NTK quoting Paragraph 9(2) Schedule 4 of POFA which i replied to and they acknowledged but subsequently ignored anyway.
The following PCNs have had varying letters and wording and different photos taken in an attempt to misrepresent the evidence of a valid permit being clearly displayed. (usual UKCPM bottom feeding stuff) 
MA has recently sent communication to say that unless residents have a valid permit displayed containing a visible hologram they must pay UKCPM (the ones who provided the permits in the first place) to obtain a new permit so they wont continue to charge residents £100 because they consider something they themselves provided to be "invalid". It really is the next level of "scumbag". 
MA claims it is all in the interest of good management of the development!!
It has got to the stage where the local police have agreed to investigate and have given me a crime reference number because of the clear attempt to harass and attempt to obtain money by providing evidence photos taken from "dodgy" angles so the permit is less visible.

Many resident have had similar issues but dont have the back bone to stand up and fight it and the MA are just a disgusting excuse for human beings who are likely receiving a financial incentive to allow UKCPM to continue onsite!
Complaint to local MP is imminent.
Any further help and suggestions would be much appreciated. Some may suggest this is just the same as every other thread out there but somehow this feels like a case of being targeted specifically!

Coupon-mad

It has got to the stage where the local police have agreed to investigate and have given me a crime reference number because of the clear attempt to harass and attempt to obtain money by providing evidence photos taken from "dodgy" angles so the permit is less visible.

Wow.  Maybe the time has come to emulate Roger Davy v UKPC:
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

Or start with a letter from the leaseholders, as I showed you before in the link I gave you to the PCM thread.

Vermicious_Knad

There is no trespass here as the land is not owned by us. Also seems like the residents/leaseholders dont have enough unity to write a letter despite many residents having similar issues.
Harassment is definitely something worth considering. Thank you anyway. 

Coupon-mad

Never mind trespass, I was trying to show you what can be done.  Doesn't have to be on the same basis.  Even if this is common land, they can't take your parking rights away or detrimentally alter them, see Saeed v Plustrade. 

https://swarb.co.uk/saeed-v-plustrade-ltd-ca-20-dec-2001/
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2001/2011.html

Someone needs to get those residents and bang their heads together and write a strong letter to the MA, because this is war, surely?