Premier Park Ltd and BW Legal. PCN for Whole period not paid for in pub car park.

railwaytaverncustomer

Hi everyone. First, thanks for all the help you give out for free. Absolute legends.

I'm going to give as much info here with regards to my PCN as possible.

I was a customer at a pub in East Grinstead on 13/10/18, Went for lunch with friends, saw parking machine in pubs car park and paid for 1 hour (reasonable time I thought).
Did not realise ANPR was in use, but did type my reg evidently. Big signs in car park say "Customers retain receipt for refund". Brilliant, free parking I thought. I left ticket in car as usual (not realising ANPR)
Food was slow to come out, after lunch went back to car to get ticket, then queued at bar to get refund for said ticket which they gave me. I apparently overstayed by 18 mins according to ANPR vehicle clocking times.

PCN was issued 18/10/18, I tried to appeal to PPC based on grounds of being a customer and entitled to free parking essentially, Have bank statements to prove I was genuine customer. They weren't interested obviously as I had inadvertently overstayed and so it was a fair PCN.

I did not go to pub to complain in person, this should have been my first port of call I now realise!!!!!!!!

I then tried to do POPLA, No dice.

Received Claim Form from Northampton CCBC just before Christmas issued 19/12/19, on same day a Notice of County Court Claim Issued was printed by BW Legal. I Filed AoS on 27/12/19 I think.

I have since got in touch with the pub management, They took over management of pub July 2019, but same company owns it and the adjacent car park in question I believe. This is True Pubs Limited / True Pubs Trading Limited / True Pub Holdings Limited / True Pub Leases Limited. The car park is apparently run by Tower Leisure Limited. They have the parking contract with Premier Park Limited.
The Directors of all these companies are the same person/people. The addresses are also the same.

I had a discussion with pub manager on phone on 24/12/19 after leaving a note with barmaid in person. (he rang me back from his personal number) who said they do not own or operate the car park in question, I said it was same people who own both the pub and the car park so they obviously have something to do with each other. I asked for ticket to be cancelled and complained about the poor treatment of their customers.
He said if I had come in within a month of ticket he could have done something, now it's out of his hands. Says I need to contact his head office direct, all info is on the website he says.

Only contact on website is an email address.
So I send an email to the pub company via the websites built in email form thingy expecting a response. I never got one.
So I sent the same email complaining and asking ticket to be cancelled again via my own email client. Still no response. May have not been delivered due to wrong email possibly.

Would you like to see the email I tried to send?

The pub manager who I am only in contact with via text message will not give his full name which is odd, I believe I know it but he will not verify he is the manager or give his name. He eventually sent me a screenshot of companies Facebook page which has head office number on it. I have tried contacting the head office phone twice today. No one picks up.

Should I send letter via recorded delivery to registered address asking for PCN to be cancelled as I was genuine customer and can prove it? If so which one?

It's late, I need sleep. Thanks again everybody. Sorry for not going direct to pub earlier, would have been so much easier.

KeithP

railwaytaverncustomer wrote: »

Received Claim Form from Northampton CCBC just before Christmas issued 19/12/19, on same day a Notice of County Court Claim Issued was printed by BW Legal. I Filed AoS on 27/12/19 I think.

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th December, and having filed an Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 21st January 2020 to file your Defence.

That's under two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

railwaytaverncustomer

Damn your quick Keith!

I've just sent this email to the pub:
To whom it may concern at the True Pub Co.

On the 13th Oct 2018 xxxxxxxxx along with several other people were customers at the Railway Tavern in East Grinstead. A parking ticket was purchased from the parking machine in the car park next to the pub for 1 hour.
A reasonable time to have lunch. The signs quite clearly said "Customers retain receipt for refund" this told me that customers of the pub could park there for free essentially as the cost would be fully refunded.
Unfortunately the service was not as quick as usual and extra time was spent having to queue up to get a refund from the bar for said parking ticket. The ticket was left on dashboard of the car for duration of parking. We did not realise ANPR was in use in pubs car park.

I received a letter some days later from a private parking company called Premier Park Limited who claimed that the vehicle had overstayed in the car park by 18 minutes and so were claiming the driver was liable for a £100 Parking Charge Notice. £60 if paid within 14 days.
I tried to contact the pub directly but no one ever seemed to pick up the phone.

Premier Park manages the car park on behalf of Tower Leisure Ltd. The directors of this company are xxxxx and xxxxx, the very same people who are the directors of the True Pub Co, which just so happens to run the Railway Tavern in East Grinstead right next door to the car park in question.
I was later told by the Manager of the pub that they do not own or run the car park directly next door to the pub, I find this disingenuous and very misleading as it is the very same people who own both the pub and the car park, albeit via separate legal entities.

Premier Park Limited have now escalated this to a County Court Claim via their solicitors BW Legal on the 19th Dec 2019 under claim reference xxxxxxx. They are now claiming that £243.64 is owed. A very expensive lunch indeed.
I understand the need for you to police the parking in your pubs car park, but allowing Premier Park Limited to treat your own customers in this way is disgusting, immoral and unfair.

I have bank statements as evidence and several witnesses that I was indeed a customer on the date in question and I will defend myself in court against this spurious claim.

I would like to give you the opportunity to correct this injustice. I kindly ask that you cancel this PCN sent via Premier Park Ltd ref:xxxxxxxx I have been a customer at the Railway Tavern many times in the past,
but after being treated like a criminal for an accidental overstay in your pubs car park I am unsure I will ever be a customer again.
#KeepingYourLocalLocal

regards

railwaytaverncustomer

OK, I've just sent my MP Henry smith an email complaining about this absolute scam.

Does anyone have any idea what my chances of winning in court are? I know that depends on effort I put into my defence, etc.

I would have thought my chances were high seeing as I was a customer and customers are able to park for free essentially. However the other half thinks they've got me by short and curly's. I did overstay (not wholly my fault however)
Depends on judge also I guess.

Thanks again everyone.

Redx

you answered your own question there

as long as the SAR has been done , and the AOS done as KeithP indicated , get on with drafting your defence , then post it below, nothing is more important and looking at a crystal ball wont help you at this time , so stop wondering and start typing out the draft

bear in mind there is no "recorded delivery" any more, hasnt been for years

there is SIGNED FOR , which they may refuse

there is SPECIAL DELIVERY , which again they could refuse

and there is FIRST CLASS post with free certificate of posting from the P O Counter , deemed delivered 2 days later, which is the one we tell people to use, because if they refuse to sign for your post , all you have is proof of non delivery, the opposite of what you want

you will find that in this saga they have all used that last option

Half_way

You should have added that the pub ( as principal) are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents ( the parking company), and if the pub/pub company does not support its agents ( the parking company) pursuing this matter through courts they must inform you of this immediately.


If the pub company says something about not wishing this to go through the courts, then you MUST inform the parking company of this and tell them that they must withdraw the court proceedings, if they continue than you can have them for unreasonable behaviour and claim full costs plus some.
If the pub co doesn't play ball, remind them again that they are jointly and severally liable and you intend to counter claim and have the pub co, and/or the directors joined to the case which will require them to attend in court

railwaytaverncustomer

Thanks for the tips!

beamerguy

railwaytaverncustomer wrote: »

OK, I've just sent my MP Henry smith an email complaining about this absolute scam.

Does anyone have any idea what my chances of winning in court are? I know that depends on effort I put into my defence, etc.

I would have thought my chances were high seeing as I was a customer and customers are able to park for free essentially. However the other half thinks they've got me by short and curly's. I did overstay (not wholly my fault however)
Depends on judge also I guess.

Thanks again everyone.

Love that your other half thinks they have you by "the short and curly" ....... so wrong ?

It's amazing that pubs employ scammers when so many pubs go bust every week ....... you need to have a serious word with the owner/landlord and get them to cancel.

You could take this to the local press which will damage the pub because people don't visit where a scam is present

Pub landlords are not known to be that smart

railwaytaverncustomer

In the SAR should I request to see the contract between pub car park "operator" (Tower Leisure) and PPC?

Sorry, I meant other half of me! Missus is totally on my side. The judge cannot just disregard contract law can he? Even if it is indeed unfair treatment for example.

I said to pub manager "If I go to court and lose, your name will be MUD!"
He said not to threaten him, I said it was well within my rights to make my feelings about his poor business practices known to other potential customers.
To be fair he was not manager when PCN was first sent, so I'm being nice.
Very unprofessional of him to not give his name after several requests. I did find the !!!!!! on fb anyway.

I think I will resend the email slightly reworded as @Half_way says to their facebook page. They seem to run company from their rather than the website. I was very tempted to thank them on all there social media thingy's for the early Christmas present I received from them with a pic of the court form.

Thought I'd play nice at first, then do that.

Call me cynical, but it seems pub does not want to be contacted. Just 1 email on website, phone number hidden on fb page. No one ever pick it up!

railwaytaverncustomer

Sorry, I request contract later correct?

beamerguy

railwaytaverncustomer wrote: »

In the SAR should I request to see the contract between pub car park "operator" (Tower Leisure) and PPC?

Sorry, I meant other half of me! Missus is totally on my side. The judge cannot just disregard contract law can he? Even if it is indeed unfair treatment for example.

I said to pub manager "If I go to court and lose, your name will be MUD!"
He said not to threaten him, I said it was well within my rights to make my feelings about his poor business practices known to other potential customers.
To be fair he was not manager when PCN was first sent, so I'm being nice.
Very unprofessional of him to not give his name after several requests. I did find the !!!!!! on fb anyway.

I think I will resend the email slightly reworded as @Half_way says to their facebook page. They seem to run company from their rather than the website. I was very tempted to thank them on all there social media thingy's for the early Christmas present I received from them with a pic of the court form.

Thought I'd play nice at first, then do that.

Call me cynical, but it seems pub does not want to be contacted. Just 1 email on website, phone number hidden on fb page. No one ever pick it up!

Don't be a Del boy, do it properly, social media and the local press