Money moral dilemma

Pollycat

NeilCr wrote: »

I have a credit card with more than enough on it for real emergencies. I don't use it much so plenty of headroom (in your thousands) if needed. I'd be very reluctant to go that route with my friend - although, I accept it would be quicker to draw the cash using that.

Now the discussion is continuing I think drawing out from the investments is a side issue (this thread has clarified my thinking a bit). My real dilemma - as articulated earlier - is the helping a friend vs getting involved financially with one

I get the point - made by others - that maybe regard it as a gift rather than a loan. However, given the amount I know he will be getting from the house sale I would struggle a bit if he didn't pay it back (I do believe he would).

It's my brain working I guess. In the end I think I should lend him the money but can't get rid of the niggle!

If you had just posted the bit in bold - without muddying (imho) the waters by introducing the 'getting money out of your investments' issue, this would have been my advice:

Pollycat wrote: »

However, If a good friend of mine was in the same situation and asked to borrow £750 on a short term basis and I knew they would pay me back, I would have the money available and would lend it to them.

And I wouldn't have a niggle.
I think I'd probably draw the line at a sum around that amount though.

And - if the worst happened and the friend didn't pay me back but was still having it large, spending money on all sorts of things (obviously not bills, food etc) like new phones, clothes etc they wouldn't be a friend any more.

So I guess my attitude can be summed up as 'don't lend anyone anything you can't afford to lose. And be prepared to lose the friendship'.

What is the root of your niggle when you've already said this?

NeilCr wrote: »

Not through MSE HQ! - so you can get more context if needed

And more for the discussion...

A good friend of mine has asked me to lend him £750. It's to tide him through a difficult period - moving house - and, while, he is not great with money, I know he will pay it back.

I can afford it although it will mean digging into some investments but I have a general dislike for getting involved in financial transactions with friends. I sold my flat to my best mate and that wasn't the best experience. Fortunately (and because we are so close) the friendship survived

I think I know how I am going to handle this but what would you do?

NeilCr

Pollycat wrote: »

If you had just posted the bit in bold - without muddying (imho) the waters by introducing the 'getting money out of your investments' issue, this would have been my advice:

And I wouldn't have a niggle.
I think I'd probably draw the line at a sum around that amount though.

And - if the worst happened and the friend didn't pay me back but was still having it large, spending money on all sorts of things (obviously not bills, food etc) like new phones, clothes etc they wouldn't be a friend any more.

So I guess my attitude can be summed up as 'don't lend anyone anything you can't afford to lose. And be prepared to lose the friendship'.

What is the root of your niggle when you've already said this?

Sure

If I'd said that in the first place. But, at that point, my thinking wasn't as clear as it is now (thread has helped) and while the drawing out the money in time is now a side issue it is still there. The request came out of the blue, too.

What is my niggle. As I've said I sold my flat to my best mate. We are really close and, at that time, I thought it was a good plan. But, it did get a bit edgy as there were problems with one of his buyers who I thought he should have kicked into touch. Guess I just don't want to take the risk (albeit very small) that something could happen that might affect a friendship. But then I, also, think I should do it. Meet my ever whirring brain...

And, I fully agree with onwards and upwards about not using the credit card!

jackieblack

NeilCr wrote: »

Guess I just don't want to take the risk (albeit very small) that something could happen that might affect a friendship. But then I, also, think I should do it. Meet my ever whirring brain...

If you say no to your friend’s request (remember that he asked, you didn’t offer), would that, in itself, affect your friendship? :think:

FWIW, if you can afford it and you’re confident that he’ll repay it, I’d lend it.

I lent money to my daughter and son-in-law to help them over a temporary cash-flow difficulty (although they didn’t ask, I offered), they were grateful and paid me back as promised. If they needed help again, I would lend to them again, rather than see them stressed and struggling. My parents did the same for us when we were starting out.

NeilCr

jackieblack wrote: »

If you say no to your friend’s request (remember that he asked, you didn’t offer), would that, in itself, affect your friendship? :think:

FWIW, if you can afford it and you’re confident that he’ll repay it, I’d lend it.

I lent money to my daughter and son-in-law to help them over a temporary cash-flow difficulty (although they didn’t ask, I offered), they were grateful and paid me back as promised. If they needed help again, I would lend to them again, rather than see them stressed and struggling. My parents did the same for us when we were starting out.

No. It wouldn't affect the friendship. I think he has the same views about mixing money and friends that I do!

I do get what you and others are saying. In the end, if he can't find another way, than I will lend him the money. But, it does make me uncomfortable.

Barny1979

NeilCr wrote: »

No. It wouldn't affect the friendship. I think he has the same views about mixing money and friends that I do!

Then why ask? I know he's moving just after Christmas, but I presume he knew he was moving and has forewarning, so could have saved bits over last couple of payslips? Presume he's not young either, so would have an indicative idea of moving costs. Is it his choice to move?

Pollycat

NeilCr wrote: »

Sure

If I'd said that in the first place. But, at that point, my thinking wasn't as clear as it is now (thread has helped) and while the drawing out the money in time is now a side issue it is still there. The request came out of the blue, too.

What is my niggle. As I've said I sold my flat to my best mate. We are really close and, at that time, I thought it was a good plan. But, it did get a bit edgy as there were problems with one of his buyers who I thought he should have kicked into touch. Guess I just don't want to take the risk (albeit very small) that something could happen that might affect a friendship. But then I, also, think I should do it. Meet my ever whirring brain...

And, I fully agree with onwards and upwards about not using the credit card!

BIB - but was that really your call?
If you are selling a property to someone who is also selling a property to someone else (which is what I guess you mean by you selling him your flat and he had a problem buyer) do you really think you should have a say in what your buyer does?
Other than to pull out of the sale and put the property back on the market if you're unhappy with timescales further up/down the chain?

Personally, I'd have treated the flat sale as a financial arrangement between two parties.

I'm a bit confused why you selling your flat to a friend has any relevance to your 'dilemma'.

ska_lover

OP, I think you need to chill out.

What happened with your house sale - I wonder if you were selling it to a stranger, would you have felt so upset in the same circumstances. I honestly do not see you have a right to feel upset about this at all!

Your mate who needs to borrow £750 is a different circumstance - he needs the money and you say you are financially secure. You say you are sure he will pay it back. I really do not see why you are tying yourself up in knots

Not everything needs to be a drama.

unholyangel

Pollycat wrote: »

BIB - but was that really your call?
If you are selling a property to someone who is also selling a property to someone else (which is what I guess you mean by you selling him your flat and he had a problem buyer) do you really think you should have a say in what your buyer does?
Other than to pull out of the sale and put the property back on the market if you're unhappy with timescales further up/down the chain?

Personally, I'd have treated the flat sale as a financial arrangement between two parties.

I'm a bit confused why you selling your flat to a friend has any relevance to your 'dilemma'.

I think (or my understanding from reading between the lines at least) that the OP felt he couldnt change his mind because it was a friend and had to persevere through it all. Where with a stranger, he would've taken other offers. Perhaps the friend kept using the friendship as the reason OP should give them more time.

OP only you know you friend and their circumstances - whether they live outwith their means generally or this is out of character for them. If someone is constantly low on money, it usually signals either poor decision making or low income. In either case, it increases the risk of not being repaid. If its out of character for them (and its just been an unfortunate series of events) then it makes it more likely you'll be repaid.

I have friends I'd loan to for any reason and friends I'd loan or give to depending on reason. The less they need the thing (they want/need the money for), the better their repayment history needs to be before I'd consider it. I'll help them get out of a bind, but I won't be a financial crutch, subsidising a lifestyle they're living but can't afford.

If the reasons good enough, I'm less likely to want/expect it back. For example I paid for a friends divorce in an abusive relationship. Bought food in for friends & their kids when they've been short on money, that sort of thing.

ska_lover

ahh I never thought that Unholy Angel, good point

NeilCr

unholyangel wrote: »

I think (or my understanding from reading between the lines at least) that the OP felt he couldnt change his mind because it was a friend and had to persevere through it all. Where with a stranger, he would've taken other offers. Perhaps the friend kept using the friendship as the reason OP should give them more time.

OP only you know you friend and their circumstances - whether they live outwith their means generally or this is out of character for them. If someone is constantly low on money, it usually signals either poor decision making or low income. In either case, it increases the risk of not being repaid. If its out of character for them (and its just been an unfortunate series of events) then it makes it more likely you'll be repaid.

I have friends I'd loan to for any reason and friends I'd loan or give to depending on reason. The less they need the thing (they want/need the money for), the better their repayment history needs to be before I'd consider it. I'll help them get out of a bind, but I won't be a financial crutch, subsidising a lifestyle they're living but can't afford.

If the reasons good enough, I'm less likely to want/expect it back. For example I paid for a friends divorce in an abusive relationship. Bought food in for friends & their kids when they've been short on money, that sort of thing.

Thank you Unholyangel. Exactly that. Because it was a close friend I felt more inclined to stick with it than with a stranger. Having said that my mate put, absolutely, no pressure on me. I did a good enough job of that, myself

Pollycat. I don't think I should have a say in my buyer's buyer. But as a vendor I would start to worry when it became clear that my buyer wasn't making (IMHO) the right decisions which were delaying the process. And, if you are selling to a friend, you are more likely to hear about the details of what is going on.

Ska lover. I am chilled, ta. Wine helps!. I am not upset about the flat sale - more that it pointed out to me the issues about getting involved in a financial transaction with a very good friend. Which is one of the reasons that this request concerns me a bit

Barny1979. Yes. My OH made the same points. His choice to move but, also, probably getting to the stage where downsizing would give him (much) needed capital