UK CPM - CCJ issued

hiphop99

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I think so, but what if the Judge doesn't agree it's mandatory in your case, and only 'discretionary'...then thinks you took too long?

Can he do that if we can prove we had moved out before any of the court letters came through? I have end of tenancy docs/new council tax/electoral roll to back me up.

Coupon-mad

Read Henrik777's recent posts, and you will see him suggesting this tactic FIRST.

henrik777

I just read that if I am applying for mandatory set aside, then time from finding out about the CCJ is irrelevant? Is that true?

Cases where the court may set aside or vary judgment entered under Part 12
13.3

(1) In any other case, the court may set aside or vary a judgment entered under Part 12 if –

(a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim; or

(b) it appears to the court that there is some other good reason why –

(i) the judgment should be set aside or varied; or

(ii) the defendant should be allowed to defend the claim.

(2) In considering whether to set asideor vary a judgment entered under Part 12, the matters to which the court must have regard include whether the person seeking to set aside the judgment made an application to do so promptly.




Compare 13.3 above to 13.2 below

Cases where the court must set aside judgment entered under Part 12

13.2 The court must set aside a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered because–

(a) in the case of a judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied;

(b) in the case of a judgment in default of a defence, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(2) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied; or

(c) the whole of the claim was satisfied before judgment was entered.




There is no requirement to act promptly under 13.2 as there is under 13.3.

henrik777

hiphop99 wrote: »

I did not know we could do/try this? Are you able to point me towards this? Is this usually successful?

Sometimes. Some claimants think they are above the overriding objective and some think the more they inconvenience, or make difficult, the more they'll get away with murder.

Further if you've not given the claimant the chance to agree it may hurt your chances of retrieving costs as they could then say, "if you told us/asked us, then we would have consented and you shouldn't get the £255 fee as that was an unnecessary expense that's been incurred due to your behaviour."


Plus, if they agree you're making your own life easier.


http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part01

Duty of the parties
1.3
The parties are required to help the court to further the overriding objective.



The overriding objective
1.1
(1) These Rules are a new procedural code with the overriding objective of enabling the court to deal with cases justly and at proportionate cost.

(2) Dealing with a case justly and at proportionate cost includes, so far as is practicable –

(a) ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;

(b) saving expense;

(c) dealing with the case in ways which are proportionate –

(i) to the amount of money involved;

(ii) to the importance of the case;

(iii) to the complexity of the issues; and

(iv) to the financial position of each party;

(d) ensuring that it is dealt with expeditiously and fairly;

(e) allotting to it an appropriate share of the court’s resources, while taking into account the need to allot resources to other cases; and

(f) enforcing compliance with rules, practice directions and orders.

hiphop99

Hi Henrik - thank you as always. A couple of questions if I may:


1) Do you have a template or can you point me towards how I would approach the claimant?


2) Would it be UKCPM or Gladstones in this instance?


3) Time is of paramount importance - Would I therefore wait for UKCPM/Gladstones to reply before submitting the N244? Can I give them a deadline to respond?



4) Can you cast your eye over my amended document? This would be a huge help.

https://www.docdroid.net/iGdA0si/draft-order-blanked.docx


5) How do I tackle the dates with respect to my witness statement - Just stay vague "I found out about the CCJ late last year" or just not mention the dates? Just mindful that I could get asked in person when it hopefully gets to that.

henrik777

1) Do you have a template or can you point me towards how I would approach the claimant?

The individual circumstances of each case make that a difficult job for a template.

Your job is to make the opponent aware of the strength of your case so that they realise it's cheaper to consent than incur costs for losing.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6063295/help-with-getting-parkingeye-ccj-set-aside-please&highlight=indemnity+basis may assist somewhat.

2) Would it be UKCPM or Gladstones in this instance?

I'd go Gladstones and CC UKCPM so they can't attempt to dither.

3) Time is of paramount importance - Would I therefore wait for UKCPM/Gladstones to reply before submitting the N244? Can I give them a deadline to respond?

Yes & yes. Probably 7 days (no more) and chase after 3. (Oh we didn't get it, here it is again then you lying @@@@)

5) How do I tackle the dates with respect to my witness statement - Just stay vague "I found out about the CCJ late last year" or just not mention the dates? Just mindful that I could get asked in person when it hopefully gets to that.

I'd front it out. You want the court to find you a credible witness. You need your evidence to carry weight so the court finds it's correct on the balance of probability.

4) Can you cast your eye over my amended document? This would be a huge help.

https://www.docdroid.net/iGdA0si/draft-order-blanked.docx

Got a tax return and other joyful stuff to do. If i can do it later i will. Hopefully others will.

hiphop99

henrik777 wrote: »

I'd front it out. You want the court to find you a credible witness. You need your evidence to carry weight so the court finds it's correct on the balance of probability.

So I just say we found out in November? How do I explain the delay etc? It is for genuine reasons but I am really worried that the judge can just deny it on that basis



Two other points


1) Do I say I will pay the £100 for the voluntary set aside in my appeal to UKCPM/Gladstones?



2) I genuinely did not receive any court documents as we had moved out - We responded to all other documents from UKCPM and Gladstones. That is still defective service? I have proof we moved out etc

henrik777

1) Do I say I will pay the £100 for the voluntary set aside in my appeal to UKCPM/Gladstones?

Well that's your call. I guess it depends whether your desire to remove the ccj quickly is greater than your desire to get it removed cheaply.

2) I genuinely did not receive any court documents as we had moved out - We responded to all other documents from UKCPM and Gladstones. That is still defective service? I have proof we moved out etc

Service can be effected even though you didn't get the claim form.


It really is quite a long and prickly subject, a matter which causes people with legal training and experience headaches galore. (i have neither btw)



Most people looking to set aside have not themselves given an address for service.

Therefore cpr 6.9 applies.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part06#6.9



So as an individual -

1. Individual Usual or last known residence.

But

(3) Where a claimant has reason to believe that the address of the defendant referred to in entries 1, 2 or 3 in the table in paragraph (2) is an address at which the defendant no longer resides or carries on business, the claimant must take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of the defendant’s current residence or place of business (‘current address’).

So is there a "reason to believe"?

This is a matter of evidence. I can find very little in the way of Judges opinion on it.

I would suggest no contact, easily findable, large gap in time from Incident, at least merits a simple trace. The fact is, court is a last resort. Checking someone lives somewhere isn't a big cost when you're issuing hundreds or thousands of claims. It borders on being an abuse of the system.

https://www.civillitigationbrief.com/2018/07/28/service-of-the-claim-form-defendants-last-known-address-claimants-reason-to-believe-a-few-points-to-watch/

hiphop99

Thanks Henrik.


Much of what you are saying is worrying me with respect to getting this set aside. I was confident given what I have read across the forums but now I don't feel that the it will be granted?


Especially factoring the time taken (family health issues necessitated that) and the fact that my previous landlord did not forward our mail on.

Redx

then you tell that to the judge and hope they are sympathetic in order to grant your wish