Sold something via Paypal

soolin

twhitehousescat wrote: »

thus is not ebay tho , its a private individual (NOT A COMPANY) just selling odds and ends off

private dealings are different to selling on ebay

No they are not, that's why your advice and understanding is wrong.

We all need to ensure that when using services like PayPal we stay safe, understand how to protect ourselves and understand the terms and conditions of any service we use. If we do not understand any of that then we risk being scammed . Misinformation and misunderstanding is dangerous and can lead to issues.

kimplus8

pulliptears wrote: »

Have to say if you did that on me I wouldn't be buying your goods.

Paypal is there for the safety of the buyer as much as the seller. I wouldn't send £280 with no cover whatsoever to a stranger on the internet.

What you should have done was send via trackable means to the registered address on Paypal and keep your receipts safe for 180 days.

totally agree with this, if you send it by trackable means to the address registered with PayPal then they would have to send the item back to obtain a refund as you will be able to prove that they have received it.

powerful_Rogue

britishboy wrote: »

Thanks again, I had no idea. Have refunded the original payment and asked for it to be gifted to me instead

Oh no! If only you had hung on before being so hasty following totally incorrect advice given by one poster on here.


By doing what they suggested, it's now you that looks like the scammer.

born_again

theonlywayisup wrote: »

A friends and family payment can actually be worse than a normal payment if a chargeback occurs as there is no seller protection from chargebacks with friends and family payments.

OP needs to make sure that can prove delivery.
Ie signed for. (I know this is not required for a invoice purchase via paypal, but OP has gone out of PP for this)

If the buyer is a scammer, then they can do a chargeback via their bank if they used a card. The only way this will be rejected is with proof of delivery. For card chargebacks that is something signed for.
No proof as above and paypal will not contest the chargeback and will take the £180 from the OP's account. Or chase via debt collector.

Seller offered me a purchase as the OP has done and they would be getting reported to paypal & ebay.

theonlywayisup

twhitehousescat wrote: »

thus is not ebay tho , its a private individual (NOT A COMPANY) just selling odds and ends off

private dealings are different to selling on ebay

They are not. It's quite simple. You are wrong and giving incorrect advice.

theonlywayisup

born_again wrote: »

OP needs to make sure that can prove delivery.
Ie signed for. (I know this is not required for a invoice purchase via paypal, but OP has gone out of PP for this).

I have no idea what you mean by "has gone out of PP for this".

Paypal require proof of postage for a chargeback, not proof of delivery.
Proof of delivery is required for an INR. A chargeback under F&F (Friends and Family) has no seller protection thus even the POD won't suffice - making it a worse option.

born_again wrote: »

If the buyer is a scammer, then they can do a chargeback via their bank if they used a card. The only way this will be rejected is with proof of delivery. For card chargebacks that is something signed for.
No proof as above and paypal will not contest the chargeback and will take the £180 from the OP's account. Or chase via debt collector..

See my response above, you also misunderstand. A F&F chargeback can not be defended as Paypal do not offer protection on a F&F chargeback.
For a chargeback on a normal payment, the defence is a POD, it doesn't need to be signed for, unless it is £750 or above.

born_again wrote: »

Seller offered me a purchase as the OP has done and they would be getting reported to paypal & ebay.

Not sure what this means.

born_again

I have no idea what you mean by "has gone out of PP for this".

Using friends & Family, rather than issuing a invoice... As well as contacting the buyer via non ebay approved method.

you also misunderstand. A F&F chargeback can not be defended as Paypal do not offer protection on a F&F chargeback.
For a chargeback on a normal payment, the defence is a POD, it doesn't need to be signed for, unless it is £750 or above.

As I said. If they go via their bank to action a chargeback PayPal do not contest when friends & family payments are used to avoid PayPal charges for goods.
So as it is via the bank Visa/Mastercard rules are what matters. And for non receipt the only defence is to have something signed for.

Seems you have totally missed what I was saying. As I clearly mentioned via bank & card. As well as "I know A PAYPAL dispute does not need proof of delivery.

As to the last bit.
If someone refunded a payment made via paypal on a ebay purchase, then asked for payment via friends & family. It is clear they are trying to avoid paypal fee's and also a potential scammer.
Thus needs reporting as such.

Korkyb

soolin wrote: »

No they are not, that's why your advice and understanding is wrong.

We all need to ensure that when using services like PayPal we stay safe, understand how to protect ourselves and understand the terms and conditions of any service we use. If we do not understand any of that then we risk being scammed . Misinformation and misunderstanding is dangerous and can lead to issues.

Hi Soolin


A few years ago I sold an item for just over £100 (advertised on Gumtree). The buyer had asked if I would post and I accepted payment by Paypal.


I followed all the usual advice (photographs while packing / next day delivery).


Buyer claimed that I sent him a bag of sand & Paypal refunded him the money in spite of the evidence I sent (photos / proof of posting / delivery).


So I lost £100 & now if anyone contacts me through Gumtree & asks if I'll post an item I'll say yes but only if payment by BT.


Would I be protected from this type of scam nowadays if I accepted Paypal?




.

soolin

Korkyb wrote: »

Hi Soolin


A few years ago I sold an item for just over £100 (advertised on Gumtree). The buyer had asked if I would post and I accepted payment by Paypal.


I followed all the usual advice (photographs while packing / next day delivery).


Buyer claimed that I sent him a bag of sand & Paypal refunded him the money in spite of the evidence I sent (photos / proof of posting / delivery).


So I lost £100 & now if anyone contacts me through Gumtree & asks if I'll post an item I'll say yes but only if payment by BT.


Would I be protected from this type of scam nowadays if I accepted Paypal?




.

This is a different scenario entirely and a difficult one - this is one that needs to be argued with PayPal on the basis of probability and where PayPal standing comes into play. Again there is no difference between an eBay or a non eBay sale.

The only way to defend this sort of scam is to actually deal direct with PayPal using any 'evidence' you have to support your claim, your own standing is taken into account, so if buyer had a completely new account they may well decide it is a scammer and repay them themselves.

It is an uncommon scam as a scammer can really only do it once .

soolin

born_again wrote: »

Using friends & Family, rather than issuing a invoice... As well as contacting the buyer via non ebay approved method.

It has already been ascertained that the sale was on a different platform to ebay and no contact at all was made via ebay.

born_again wrote: »

As I said. If they go via their bank to action a chargeback PayPal do not contest when friends & family payments are used to avoid PayPal charges for goods.
So as it is via the bank Visa/Mastercard rules are what matters. And for non receipt the only defence is to have something signed for.

No a bank claim for fraudulent use of a card when using friends and family cannot be defended with proof of postage or delivery as there is no seller protection - and more importantly no address given that seller can provide evidence for. Admittedly any buyer trying to scam by doing a fraudulent bank claim stands to lose their bank account if bank don't believe it was fraud (and I've seen this happen) and posisbly even get a fraud marker - and it isn't just a case that bank believes the bank account holder anymore. So although this is ultra rare, nearly never tried- it is something to be considered by a seller.

born_again wrote: »

Seems you have totally missed what I was saying. As I clearly mentioned via bank & card. As well as "I know A PAYPAL dispute does not need proof of delivery.

born_again wrote: »

As to the last bit.
If someone refunded a payment made via paypal on a ebay purchase, then asked for payment via friends & family. It is clear they are trying to avoid paypal fee's and also a potential scammer.
Thus needs reporting as such.

I agree completely, any seller asking for a friends and family payment should be treated as a scammer and avoided.

EDIT: I just want to clarify the issue of a friends and family payment as I am aware that my explanations are sometimes confusing. The one thing to remember is how very very rare a charge back is for a f & f payment for one simple reason- a f & f payment can only be made from a cleared paypal balance, not from a bank card. That means if a buyer tries a charge back with their bank they have to display that a scammer has access to their bank account to send a payment to paypal and then also has access to paypal to send the payment onwards - a rather unlikely scenario for anyone with even basic knowledge of staying safe on ebay. Also should anyone have access to a bank account then it is more likely that they would cut out paypal and just transfer the money direct via bank transfer. If a scammer uses an existing paypal balance to make a f & f payment then the bank is not involved and it is up to paypal to refund or not - but paypal cannot take that money from the seller.