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BEV emmissions

edited 30 November -1 at 12:00AM in Green & Ethical MoneySaving
166 replies 5.7K views
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Replies

  • GreatApeGreatApe
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    almillar wrote: »
    You know what our argument is really about? BEVs are clean. It's the grid that needs to be cleaned..


    We are where we are
    The world's big grids don't expect to be clean anytime soon
    So buying a BEV while not directly emitting CO2 they definitely do so indirectly

    As such if co2 emmissions are your primary concern BEVs in most locations in the world would be worse than an efficient ICE

    You could be like me and just not care about CO2 emmissions and say you like BEVs for other reasons. Style sound imagine whatever
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    almillar wrote: »
    Why is comparing the worst of present electric generation, with lots of fun future developments in ICE and hybrid? Do I really have to explain again that's not a level playing field, choosing worst case present, with some positive future?



    You know what our argument is really about? BEVs are clean. It's the grid that needs to be cleaned. At no point have I been under any illusion that FF are burnt to power my transport. But I KNOW that I am burning far less energy, of any sort, to move around in my EV than in my ICE.

    Some extra tools for your troll fighting toolbox:

    Regarding future developments, how about ~15gCO2/mile based on what has already been achieved in the UK, and will, of course, happen more often, and for longer periods going forward?
    August 17 2019 – lowest ever carbon intensity 57 gCO2/kWh (carbon intensity of electricity is a measure of Co2 emissions produced per kilowatt hour of electricity consumed)
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • GreatApeGreatApe
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Some extra tools for your troll fighting toolbox:

    Regarding future developments, how about ~15gCO2/mile based on what has already been achieved in the UK,

    This one days falls within the ~2% of hours which are marginal green
    98% of hours aren't
    and will, of course, happen more often, and for longer periods going forward?

    Your question mark is well placed

    The answer is no the grid doesn't expect marginal green hours to boom over the next 5-10 years primarily due to the closure of half the nuclear reactors and the build out of 5-10 interconntors
  • gefnewgefnew Forumite
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    But what is the carbon foot print of building the power station
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    gefnew wrote: »
    But what is the carbon foot print of building the power station

    Or the oil exploration, oil extraction, oil transportation, oil refining, petrol transportation, petrol pumping ....... all to burn the petrol at 10-25% efficiency?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • SolarchaserSolarchaser Forumite
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    Thanks guys, this has been an entertaining read.

    Hats off to Almillar, while most people see the great troll posts and scroll by, you have stopped and took him to task on his bullsh!t, I know this, as I scrolled by his as usual and simply read what was in your quotes, and the systematic debunking of his bs, and a great effort to stop his wriggling and the usual double counting.
    Nicely done!

    I've had a leaf for a little over a year.
    It's done now 7k miles, 6k of those were in Scotland where the generation from renewables has been *pretty good* the last wee while, and 1k was touring England in the summer.

    The leaf returns an indicated 3.9m/kw in longer journeys, 3.5 in dead of winter short journeys (including preheating for school run) and around 3.8m/kwh everywhere else.

    Its almost exclusively charged from the granny charger, but let's say 5k of those 6k, as occasionally use the free chargers around Scotland, and my worked out efficiency of the granny charger is around 92%.

    That percentage is worked out between the smart meter and battery management for sofar, so I accept its woolyness, I only add it as my experience.

    As an aside of sorts, the leaf is generally seen as a small car.... it's really not.
    It's only around 20cm shorter than my merc c220.
    It fits my family of 5 as comfortably as the c220.
    Now while I'm not suggesting it's in the same range as the merc, its certainly more comparable to an Octavia/passat/a4 than a corsa or polo.

    As a double aside, I also drive a 200sx which at absolute best gets around 20mpg of high octane petrol (I wonder if 98/99 ton is worse for the environment than 95ron)
    West central Scotland
    4kw sse since 2014 and 6.6kw wsw / ene split since 2019
    24kwh leaf and Lux 3600 with 17kwh useable storage
  • silverwhistlesilverwhistle Forumite
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    Thanks guys, this has been an entertaining read.

    Hats off to Almillar, while most people see the great troll posts and scroll by,


    Or don't even see them. I concur, although personally just have in mind the old adage about wrestling with a pig..


    Thanks for the account of actual experience with an EV. I'm waiting for SH prices to soften or more battery owned Zoes to become available but a 30kWh Leaf seems a likely option. But they are still expensive: my last car, still going well, was £4k in 2013.. I accept I'll have to pay more this time. Last time I just got, without preconceptions, what was good value and suited me, and I'm not really prepared to pay for the current scarcity value.
  • edited 27 December 2019 at 3:45PM
    Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    edited 27 December 2019 at 3:45PM
    As an aside of sorts, the leaf is generally seen as a small car.... it's really not.

    Totally agree, perhaps it sits midway between small and medium. We managed to get two large Retrievers on the back seat on Xmas day, they were a tad more squished than in the Zafira, and for a long journey I think one in the boot would be better (but we had bags of presents, food etc etc to transport) and they seemed happy for a serious (oops should have been - series) of 30 minute(ish) jaunts - so tick off one of my concerns for going full BEV today.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • EricMearsEricMears Forumite
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    I believe the 'new shape' Leaf (like mine) is a bit bigger than the older version (Like Martyn's). I'd certainly describe mine as 'medium'.
    NE Derbyshire.
    4kWp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
    BEV : Nissan Leaf e+
  • GreatApeGreatApe
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Or the oil exploration, oil extraction, oil transportation, oil refining, petrol transportation, petrol pumping ....... all to burn the petrol at 10-25% efficiency?

    BEVs burn coal or gas indirectly in most of the world

    That coal and gas also requires exploration extraction transportion refining crushing
    ... All to burn at 33-49% efficiency and then to lose 5-10% over a grid and 5-20% charging a car and 5-10% converting that DC to AC to kinetic so you are left with primary energy conversion no better than an efficient ICE
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