PCN unauthorised by land management

Cw1979

Hello all,

Update - I have recieved a repy from the Vehicle Control Services (the reply was from Excel Parking even though I sent to Vehicle Control Data Office). Please see below:

Dear Madam

We write in relation to your request to rectify the data we hold in relation to you below.

We advise that we do not agree with your statement that we did not have authority to manage the car park at 5 XXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXXXX. We were instructed by the Managing Agents to manage the site from the 26th January 2016 and we will continue with our action to recover the outstanding balance should the matter not be satisfied. We reject your request for your data to be removed from our records.

Please refer to: http://www.vehiclecontrolservices.co.uk and follow the links for our Privacy Notices in respect of any questions you may have and your rights in respect of your data.


The address I stated on my email to them was for the address 5a, not 5. To add more info - two apartment block back onto the same rectangle private gated car park. Apartments at address 5 have spaces on one short side of the rectangle, apartments at address 5a have the rest of the carpark.

Should I reply to the email explaining their mistake and attach the land registry documents for 5 and 5a (supplied to me by the management company of 5a) and then repeat my SAR request? I sent the request 19/12/2019.

Many thanks for your continued support.

Half_way

Have you complained to the ICO, and the DVLA?.


All of this should be used for any defence, as evidence of unreasonable behaviour.

Should I reply to the email explaining their mistake and attach the land registry documents for 5 and 5a

As long as they contain no one else data, but yours.


I would also point the managemetn company at this thread, and ask them again, if they are on side and want whatever company Simon Renshaw smith is using (VCS/Excell) then it should all be a formality

Cw1979

I will ask the comany again, but I have numerous emails from the associate director of the company who has provided me with the land registry documents (they are just maps with shaded areas so I think it should be ok data wise) who is clearly angry with the company and has offered further help if required.

A first draft for defence. I was advised to not add too much detail by legal professionals, but I have tried to follow advice on the forum to cover myself:

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed or at all.
2. It is admitted that the Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle
3. It is denied that the Defendant has committed a breach of the terms of parking as alleged by the Claimant.
4. The defendant’s vehicle is said to be identified in the 5 XXXXXX on 19/03/2016 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions. The defendant’s vehicle was parked on the land of 5a XXXXXXX and can be proved by photographic evidence.
5. The managing company of the land 5a XXXXXXX contacted Vehicle Control Services Ltd to ask for the removal of the signage as there was no contract in place between the managing company and Vehicle Control Services LTD. The signage was removed.
6. The time gap between the alleged offence and the Letter before Claim was roughly 3 years 8 months.

7. The Defendant denies that a contract was formed with Vehicle Control Services Ltd as:
a) Vehicle Control Services Ltd has never had a contract with the managing company of the site.
b) The managing company of the site complained that Vehicle Control Services had put a signage on their land without their permission resulting in the removal of the signage.
c) Vehicle Control Services are using a photograph of the signage, placed on the 5a XXXXXX without the permission of the land management company, as evidence that they have the right to issue a parking charge notice and claim for breach of contract, despite having knowledge that they did not have a contract with the land management company.

8. In summary, the Claimant particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.

Statement of Truth:
I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Fruitcake

You still haven't told us if you have made the complaints you were advised to do over a month ago, and if so, if you have had replies yet.

Have any fake add-ons in the order of £60 been included in the claim? If so then the comments from C-m's post 14 of beamerguy's "abuse of process" thread should be included.

Cw1979

I think the £60 has been added. I seem to remember that the signs say the parking charge would be £100 (I only live 10 mins away now so can go check). That means £60 has been added, then £25 for court fees as the total now stands at £185. I will look at the thread that has been suggested and add to my defence.

I have been so focused on the deadlines (for Acknowledgement of Service and Defence and having Christmas in the middle) that I have only managed to email Trading Standards asking which department I should contact. And have received no reply.

I wanted to finalise my defence so I that could stop worrying about that, then was going to contact DVLA etc. Is it too late now? I apologise that I am having trouble following the instructions. It must be very frustrating for you. I suffer from quite severe anxiety which means I struggle to process information when under pressure. But I am trying to do the right things with your help and thank you for your patience and understanding. I've also contacted a local solicitors and proposed that if they handled the case then they could have all of the money from a counter claim as payment. But they said this would not cover their fees.

Coupon-mad

It can only be a max £100 so no need to check.

It is never too late to complain to the DVLA - you want the email for the KADOE complaints team, it is on the forum recently.

Why not forward these emails as part of your complaint, and the land registry proof that the '5a' land is under separate title and was never authorised for the scammers to issue PCNs or get DVLA data of people there:

I have numerous emails from the associate director of the company who has provided me with the land registry documents (they are just maps with shaded areas so I think it should be ok data wise) who is clearly angry with the company and has offered further help if required.

Egbert_Nobacon

I see both Excel and VCS are mentioned.

If the signs were Excel but the court claim is from VCS the following may be of use.

As far as the Excel/VCS switch this from barge pole is more concise and easier for a judge to see:-

The Claim is made in the name of Vehicle Control Services Ltd. (Company No. 04298820), whereas the signage displayed at the location in question was, and is, in the name of Excel Parking Services Ltd. (Company No. 02878122), a separate legal entity. This fact can be confirmed by reference to the images contained in the Claimant’s bundle. Any contract, in a private car park, can only be formed by signage, and it is therefore submitted that if there was any contract, it would have been between Excel and the Defendant. VCS were not a party to such a contract, and therefore cannot sue on it.

Cw1979

I have received email correspondence from Excel, but VCS is on the claim form etc. I'm pretty sure VCS in on the signs in their area too. Usefully, they have used the address 5 XXXXXXX on the Claim form and in their email responses to me. I have emailed the data officer back explaining their mistake and providing contact details of the managing company of 5a XXXXXX. I will be submitting complaints to KADOE, Trading Standards and my local MP this week.

Any other advice before I submit this as my defence?

DEFENCE
1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed or at all.
2. It is admitted that the Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle
3. It is denied that the Defendant has committed a breach of the terms of parking as alleged by the Claimant.
4. The defendant’s vehicle is said to be identified in the 5 XXXXXX on 19/03/2016 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions. The defendant’s vehicle was parked on the land of 5a XXXXXXX and can be proved by photographic evidence.
5. The managing company of the land 5a XXXXXXX contacted Vehicle Control Services Ltd to ask for the removal of the signage as there was no contract in place between the managing company and Vehicle Control Services LTD. The signage was removed.
6. The time gap between the alleged offence and the Letter before Claim was roughly 3 years 8 months.
7. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred £60 costs to pursue an alleged £100 debt. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, in Schedule 4, Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge £100 if the defendant is found to be in breach of contract, which does not apply in this case, as no breach occurred.

8. The Defendant denies that a contract was formed with Vehicle Control Services Ltd as:
a) Vehicle Control Services has never had a contract with the managing company of the site.
b) The managing company of the site complained that Vehicle Control Services had put a signage on their land, without their permission resulting in the removal of the signage.
c) Vehicle Control Services are using a photograph of the signage, placed on the 5a XXXXXX without the permission of the land management company, as evidence that they have the right to issue a parking charge notice and claim for breach of contract, despite having knowledge that they did not have a contract with the land management company.
9. In summary, the Claimant particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.

Statement of Truth:
I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Name
Sign
Date

KeithP

Did you consider Egbert Nobacon's point in post #58?

Egbert_Nobacon

They must have provided photos of the signs they are relying on.

If they are Excel signs they will surely struggle.

Also, where is the long abuse of process detail in your defence ?