Neighbour and management threatening fines and eviction

Annastin

We are a family with 2 toddlers and rent a first floor flat in a block from a private landlord. The flat has wooden flooring and we have been here only a couple of months now on a 12 month fixed contract with no break clause.

A couple occupies the flat below us on the ground floor (they own the flat) and constantly complain that there is too much noise from our flat mostly from footsteps and the babies crying. I've told them that I do my best with regard to soothing the babies when they cry but it doesn't always work. As for footsteps, I wear soft slippers and have a high pile rug covering most of the living room (which is where the kids play) and there's little I can do further to reduce any noise transmission.

They have now complained to the building management/freeholder (don't know what the difference is) and said that we could be fined or even evicted from the property! I talked to the landlord who laughed and said I should just ignore the neighbours. If we get any letters from management addressed to him, "just put them in the bin"

1. Can the management fine us for this issue (as opposed to the landlord)?

2. Can management evict us even though we're on a no-break clause AST until next summer?

Thanks!

need_an_answer

Your LL is their fellow leaseholder.
Your LL is the person who rents his property to you,whilst noise can be an issue any action to remove you from the property would need to be instigated by your LL.

There may be some pointers in the lease as to what noise is acceptable however with the greatest of respect to the neighbours below I doubt that they would ever be able to force you out on the grounds that your children are being anything other than children!

There could be something that prohibits wooden floors but that would be in the lease between your LL and the freeholder and would be up to him to discuss within the terms of the lease.

davidmcn

And no, they can't "fine" you.

Annastin

Thank you, that is good to know.

From a quick look at the AST, this is what it says about noise -

The Tenant will not make any noise that is audible outside the Property from 11pm to 7am daily.

I must admit, I didn't see this clause before today and there is no way I could meet that stipulation. While we are asleep from 11-7, the babies do get up at night and cry occasionally if they're unwell, hungry, etc. And we do have to walk between bedroom-bathroom-microwave at night when tending to the children.

We value our sleep as well so already do what we can to keep the above to the minimum.

need_an_answer

TBH I fail to see how this can be enforced in the manner that the neighbours might want.

Yes if you were playing loud music,a musical instrument or perhaps coming home much too worse for wear after a good night out and repeatedly waking the complex...but children do cry at times in the night so that would be classed as an acceptable occurrence.

I have yet to meet a parent who can honestly say that at some points their child has not cried and its possibly been to the annoyance and inconvenience of someone else.

Lets not forget we were all babies and toddlers once....even those that are now complaining.

Please stop stressing,and get on with raising your family,you do not have to creep round like mice in your own home.

Retired_Mortgage_Adviser

To put it bluntly, taken literally, that clause is unenforceable.

No landlord can stipulate that noise you make as part of using your property in a tenant-like manner should not be heard outside the property. Nothing that you have said indicates otherwise.

Annastin wrote: »

The Tenant will not make any noise that is audible outside the Property from 11pm to 7am daily.

elsien

I suspect from your landlord's response that this is not a new issue with the relevant neighbours and they have also complained about previous tenants. All you can do is what you are doing, but without feeling so on edge that you are tiptoeing round and panicking that your children are crying.
Children cry. It's what they do. My next door neighbour's kid has some very loud very impressive tantrums on a regular basis. Anyone living in a flat expecting no noise at all from other flats is deluded.

Comms69

Annastin wrote: »

We are a family with 2 toddlers and rent a first floor flat in a block from a private landlord. The flat has wooden flooring and we have been here only a couple of months now on a 12 month fixed contract with no break clause.

A couple occupies the flat below us on the ground floor (they own the flat) and constantly complain that there is too much noise from our flat mostly from footsteps and the babies crying. I've told them that I do my best with regard to soothing the babies when they cry but it doesn't always work. As for footsteps, I wear soft slippers and have a high pile rug covering most of the living room (which is where the kids play) and there's little I can do further to reduce any noise transmission.

They have now complained to the building management/freeholder (don't know what the difference is) and said that we could be fined or even evicted from the property! I talked to the landlord who laughed and said I should just ignore the neighbours. If we get any letters from management addressed to him, "just put them in the bin"

1. Can the management fine us for this issue (as opposed to the landlord)? - Only a court can fine you. But in this context, no - management company aren't a party to your tenancy

2. Can management evict us even though we're on a no-break clause AST until next summer? - No. Management company can never evict you. Again not a party to your tenancy

Thanks!

Tell the neighbours if they want silence they should move to a detached property in the styx

sal_III

Annastin wrote: »

From a quick look at the AST, this is what it says about noise -

The Tenant will not make any noise that is audible outside the Property from 11pm to 7am daily.

This is unenforceable nonsense. Even if it was enforceable, it should come from the LL via court, as the AST is between you and the LL.

The neighbour and ManCo/Freeholder can only take actions against the LL, not you.

Seeing that the LL in unperturbed by this, you have nothing to worry about in terms of fines/eviction. Seems like you are already trying to control the situation in "good will", so just ignore the neighbours, they are being unreasonable.

Annastin

Thanks for all your responses, that is a relief! Except for the downstairs neighbours, we really like everything else about the flat so happy to hear that we should be able to continue as is until the end of our AST at least.

I'll wait for my partner to come home this evening and then go downstairs and tell them clearly that this is the most we can do and that they are free to take whatever action they think appropriate but to stop knocking on our door and bothering us.

gomer

Annastin wrote: »

Thanks for all your responses, that is a relief! Except for the downstairs neighbours, we really like everything else about the flat so happy to hear that we should be able to continue as is until the end of our AST at least.

I'll wait for my partner to come home this evening and then go downstairs and tell them clearly that this is the most we can do and that they are free to take whatever action they think appropriate but to stop knocking on our door and bothering us.

How often are they knocking on your door?