County Court Business Centre - UKPPO

Coupon-mad

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z0p9tgymq51tqmk/AADBSNF4aFta6WUnSWkzjM_Da?dl=0

I don't think it matters, it is not disadvantaging the OP to have this forum thread running and the details & timings of paperwork tell UKPPO who this is anyway.  And his name is on the Witness Statement he copied above as well, so there is no need to hide.  His story has been consistent and honest on this thread.

There is no evidence they are using a solicitor and you CERTAINLY should not throw any money at that!  They have merely said they want to try to claim the costs of the advocate they will use to attend the hearing, and they can only get that if the Judge agrees that you have acted 'wholly unreasonably'.  Defending a claim and choosing not to be bullied into settling either during mediation calls or by trying a pointless IAS 'appeal' that are skewed against consumers and give anonymous bizarre decisions, is your right, and not unreasonable. 

You didn't ignore the PCN, you appealed it and said (to avoid intimidating debt demands and protracted correspondence) that you'd rather a Judge looked at the signage and decided.  You did everything right.  Nothing unreasonable!  So the advocates cost can be argued against and you should say the above to the Judge at the eventual hearing.

Did UKPPO file this claim themselves and didn't add £60 to the £100 on the left of the claim form?

You will need to file & serve your own WS & evidence before the hearing, of course.

I notice the evidence says that Wembley Park have to provide UKPPO with an exemptions list of vehicles.  Now, that could easily include 'don't issue PCNs to marked taxis' but UKPPO have failed to show that evidence, haven't they? The exemptions (white lists) from Wembley Park and/or from UKPPPO themselves, have been withheld and are not in evidence.  The aerial map also says cars are exempted if they pass the second camera into the undercover car park and yet they haven't shown that 'white list' either, even though in your quest to find the passenger it is perfectly possible you drove in/out of exempt areas that day, yet all UKPPO have shown is the entrance in/out images.

I don't think the images of signs match the mock-up aerial view they've artificially created by taking a GoogleStreetView pic and plonking some coloured symbols randomly on it.  For example the only 'entrance sign' seems to be weirdly placed on the right, next to a blocked off cycle lane and raised area dividing the road - i.e. it's on the other side of the road to approaching cars.  Local Authority signage rules are a good way to compare and show how private parking signs fail and LA rules require that entrance signs to controlled parking 'zones' are on BOTH sides of the road - with repeater signs facing oncoming cars - and PCNs are cancelled by adjudicators, if any entrance (or repeater) sign is missing because the likelihood is a driver has not had a fair opportunity to see it.

Yet the aerial view mock-up pretty coloured symbols pic suggests there are entrance signs on BOTH sides.  They are lying according to Google StreetView, and they have put NO signs at the barrier (did you pass that barrier, why are there NO large & prominently worded signs here)?

https://goo.gl/maps/iByVmeWreFSXZCKh6

and here is that single tiny right-hand side sign they are relying upon and criticising you for not seeing!

https://goo.gl/maps/Ek7Q3hQBpjr7xzoa9

Virtually drive along a bit.  No signs at all here:

https://goo.gl/maps/JefkBZXjqHMiDmAt8

And nothing seen here:

https://goo.gl/maps/gt9fJwisPXJUJiKM8

And nothing prominent here:

https://goo.gl/maps/RRPkrAX26vgCe4d28

Oh wait!  There is a sign on the left...but it's up on a lamppost and NOT facing oncoming traffic as repeater signs must, instead it is at right angles to traffic:

https://goo.gl/maps/taxvPHHnqMLohTYs5

Now, when UKPPO were in the BPA AOS (before they jumped to the kangaroo court set up run by the IPC) they would have seen the POPLA Annual Reports.  The fact they are no longer in the BPA AOS and have jumped to an easier appeals service (the IPC promise that PPCs will win 80% of cases, in clear disregard for the interests of motorists and the facts of cases) does not mean that they could forget clear instructions and opinion from expert parking law barrister Henry Greenslade.  He was the erstwhile PATAS and POPLA Lead Adjudicator who published this about no stopping zones (which this effectively is):

https://popla.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-document-library/popla_annualreport_2013.pdf?sfvrsn=2

p26
''No stopping zones
An area where Assessors are beginning to see issues arise in appeals is one where there is a prohibition on vehicles stopping. Whilst this does not usually occur in car parks, it can do, for example, on approach roads to airports. Typically the motorist may have stopped on a double yellow line to allow passengers to board or alight the vehicle. Of course, on the public highway this is generally permitted, although not on a red route where there is a clear red line. It is therefore very important that any prohibition is clearly marked; bearing in mind that such signage has to be positioned, and be of such a size, as to be read by a motorist without having to stop to look at it. Signs on red routes, unlike those indicating most parking restrictions, are generally positioned to face oncoming traffic, rather than parallel to it.''

Not only are there no red lines or any clear and consistent road markings here, but there are no repeater signs either because they are twisted at 90 degrees and there are no large double signs at the entrance.

IPC CoP about signs:

https://theipc.info/brandings/2/resources/documents/Code%20of%20Practice%20v7.pdf

Text Size
''The size of the text on the sign must be appropriate for the location of the sign and should be clearly readable by a Motorist having regard to the likely position of the Motorist in relation to the sign''.

''Entrance Signs should:
a) make it clear that the Motorist is entering onto private land;
b) refer the Motorist to the signs within the Car Park which display the full terms and conditions. Signs should, where practicable, be placed at the entrance to a Car Park. Otherwise the signage within the Car Park must be such as to be obvious to the Motorist. Signs at the entrance to Controlled Land or Private Car Parks should not infer an invitation to park.'' 

Signs Displaying Terms and Conditions
''The Operator must adequately display any signs intended to form the basis of contract between the Creditor and the Motorist. Such signs must (in addition to the requirements above):
a. be in sufficient number so that they are clearly visible to Motorists on the Controlled Land;
b. inform the Motorist of all the Terms and Conditions applicable to the use of Vehicles on the Controlled Land;
c. identify yourself as ‘the Creditor’;
d. identify the amount of any charge and explain when it becomes payable;
e. advise Motorists that if a charge remains unpaid for a period of 28 days after issue then an application will be made for the Keeper’s details from DVLA, or, that they may be requested immediately such that a notice may be served on the keeper by post;'' 

Additional Signage
''Signage which is neither an entrance sign or a sign displaying all the terms and conditions must not contradict the terms applicable to Motorists or be misleading.'' 

Changes in Operator’s Terms and Conditions
''Where there is any change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a person visiting the Car Park and which materially affects the Motorist the Operator should place additional (temporary) notices at the entrance making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur Parking Charges.''


Installing ANPR and timing cars at the point of entering the 'zone' is certainly a change, from a previously manned enforcement scheme where taxis could previously safely stop to set down and pick up passengers and had no need to calculate and guess their 'total stay' from an unknown point in time and then pass a camera on the way out that times them as having 'stayed' longer than 20 minutes altogether on site, including driving time.

Koq1985

So the original first date of hearing has been set on 19 May 2020 so I was waiting with the witness statement etc to see what other party will send first. 

Now due to the virus hearing has been postponed. I understand that they will setup new date and I will have time to do the statement right? Or should I do it today as it is the last day I can do it due to the first date of hearing. The court informed me about this change like 4 days ago. 

Everything is up to date I think as Im trying to follow your instructions. 

Today I have been on the site of Wembley to do video 

Wembley Hilton proof

m.youtube.com/watch?v=P6F4GPoUcqs&feature=youtu.be

(Im not able to post full links still) 

There was a sign at the very beginning of this video just after the turn where to be honest I haven’t been able to read anything from it as I was paying attention to the road. Have a look how the site looks now. 

My question is, should I file the witness statement today anyway or should I wait for next date of hearing? 

Thanks 

nosferatu1001

Think of it this way = what have you been ORDERED to do by a court, and has that ORDER been changed?
If you were ordered to file a WS by 4pm today, and that order has not been changed, then guess what - the order still stands
If you have been given another order, alongside info on your hearing date, then go with the new order. 

Koq1985

Ok so i have just prepared the statement. Can you have a look? 

In the HM Courts & Tribunals Service

The County Court at Clerkenwell & Shoreditch

Claim No. F6QZ14JQ

Between UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd (Claimant)

And

Lukasz Koziarski (Defendant) 

Witness Statement 

1. I am ..... London, the Defendant in this matter. I will say as follows:
2. Im a Private Hire Chauffeur working in my private car ...... 
3. On 7th July 2019 at 11:00am I came to Wembley, Lakeside Way to pickup one of the customers who was going to Cambridge (see schedule H). The customer from my knowledge was staying in the Hilton Wembley Hotel where should I picked him up. After arriving I stopped my car at the close space to the entrance of the hotel as there was no available pickup/drop-off area. I was trying to call passenger few times but without the positive result of getting in touch with him. After 15 minutes I decided to leave the car for 1 minute and I went inside to speak about the guest with the reception. This is common practice in the industry. Concierge informed me that the passenger is coming down and I should wait, so I did. I came back to the car and waited another 15 minutes. As the journey has been prepaid, in our best interests is to wait as long as possible for the client, however due to long waiting time and scheduled next bookings I decided to leave the site (after the consultation telephonic consultation with the office) as the customer was still not present for the pickup. 
4. As you can see on the video footage I made today 5.05.2020 (see link in schedule K), the signs on the site are not facing the direction of the drivers during the ride, one of them are located on the lampposts far away from the entrance to the hotel where I have been waiting. At the time of the event, when I was entering the site I haven’t seen any signs which indicate that im entering private land, CCTV monitored or whatsoever. 
5. The site is very poor marked. (see link in schedule K) On the video footage you can nearly see one of the signs at the entrance which indicates “something”. However the sign is to small and is located to close to the turn. As experienced chauffeur, I know that the safety comes at the first place if it’s about the driving. While you make a turn from very busy road to the site like that (see schedule L), where plenty of people are walking around, you watch only on the road to keep your driving safe. There is a sign located no more than few meters  form it so for the driver it is impossible to read anything on it and keep the safety at the same time. (I have noticed this sign today as I was paying attentions just to see if there are any signs like that on the site) (see schedule K link). If there will be bigger sign, on the both sides of the place where ANPR is taking the photos than drivers would have chance to read it properly and comply with the terms and conditions proposed by the operator.
6. I understand that the site might be a private land but in this case Taxi drivers, Chauffeurs, Private Hire Vehicles or Goods Deliveries should have opportunity to avoid the penalties caused by the extended waiting times, just simply by entering Number Plates to the system somehow, for example at the Hotel Reception. However in my case as haven’t been aware of the terms and conditions on the site this is not applicable. This is just to clarify things for the future cases like that one. 
7. As per definition of the word “park”. Another thing is that the Claimant base of this claim is the letter sent to me on 12.07.2019 with the ref number ...... The Claimant is using the sentence “because it was parked” - unfortunately I haven’t parked my car at the site, to park the car, mean leaving the car in particular place for a period of time. The Claimant haven’t provided such a evidence. The fact I came in and left a while later doesn’t mean that I parked a car anywhere. 
8. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant. 
9. If that’s not the case please proceed with the hearing based on my defence and witness statement. 

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

Also I have attachements: 

ipc code of practice

consument rights

defendant costs

pofa 2012 sch 4

beavis case judgement

oxford dictionary meaning word "park"

screenshot of the google maps location

link to the video as above 

booking confirmation ( from the company)

defence

first letter they sent me with the panalty 

Please just let me know if thats enough. 

Many thanks 

Koq1985

And also to which court I shlud present the evidences and the witness statement now? to the one where the hearing will take place? Can I sen it online? If yes how? 

Le_Kirk

You send your witness statement and evidence to the court were the hearing will take place UNLESS you have received any court orders saying anything different.  It is always advised to hand deliver WS and evidence to the court, however, due to lock-down restrictions, that may not be possible - in which case post with a certificate of posting.  Also send everything to the claimant.  Also you might have already or will receive instructions concerning a telephone hearing which will contain further instructions.
You need the longer statement of truth (ask Auntie Google) and your evidence should be Exhibit_001 not schedule.

Le_Kirk

After 15 minutes I decided to leave the car for 1 minute and I went inside to speak about the guest with the reception. 

This contradicts this: -

The Claimant is using the sentence “because it was parked” - unfortunately I haven’t parked my car at the site, to park the car, mean leaving the car in particular place for a period of time. 

Coupon-mad

Did UKPPO file this claim themselves and didn't add £60 to the £100 on the left of the claim form?

I asked that in my answer and I gave you more GoogleStreetView images to use as well as your video.

Just wondering if you need the supplementary WS about adding £60, or not.

Koq1985

Coupon-mad Im not really sure what are you asking for?? I think they did that by themselves. I have spoken to this court today. They advised me where to send it (on email literally) , which I did today before 16:00pm. I provided copy for the claimant as well through email like they did. 
Unfortunately I found a post which showed this schedule A,B,C... indicators to the files and I sent it like that. Hope this will be approved. Claimant did the same so it should be fine. 

Those are the files which I filed today: 

https:// xxx.dropbox.com/sh/k58ywyniedzkarw/AABYI-Zx_0_Vku8VwTZW2EnTa?dl=0

Please tell me that all good  

And by the way, at the end of this story I will take this £450 and I will invite you all if I win for a beer at least  

Coupon-mad

Koq1985 said:

Hi I need help to defend parking ticket Money Claims Online stage.
18.11.2019 Issue Date 
Amount claimed £103,60
Court Fee £25
Legal r.costs £0
Total £128.60

I am quoting your first post because UKPPO have put their own claim in (no solicitor involved in filing it) and they've not added the usual false £60, that's all I meant from my question.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k58ywyniedzkarw/AABYI-Zx_0_Vku8VwTZW2EnTa?dl=0

That is good - I hope they let you show that video.  You haven't explained in your WS why you are attaching the Beavis case, the POFA and the CRA 2015.  In your case, as they haven't added £60 to the claim, you need to be clear that your reason for attaching those laws and case law, is because they all show that there must be 'adequate notice' using 'very clear and prominent signs with large lettering'. 

And the video proves that this was not the case.  There was plenty of space to put up large notices at that barrier but they didn't, so the main thrust of your case is about the unclear signs.  Did you not use any of the Google Streetview (GSV) screenshots I gave to you, it told a really clear story in pictures and if the court won't allow your video then you will need to point to photo proof instead which is why I gave you those links to GSV.