Private PCN - Excel Parking - WE WON!

D_P_Dance

Should that not be "whom"?

Were_Doomed

Umkomaas ... I've read previously that you often close off your PMs. (No idea if that's possible in this forum but I know there used to be a previous version of the forum).

PS - I'm not trying to cause trouble ... I'm on your side, I'm not a PPC stooge.

Snakes_Belly

Snakes_Belly said:

The case that Excel cite is the Shoe Lane Case. In this case the contract was formed at the entrance to the car park. The car park in question was a barrier car park where the driver would stop and be able to read a sign. Compare this Excel sign with a barrier car park and I don't think that there is any comparison to the Shoe Lane Case or that the contract was formed at this point. Excel will say that it is and cite Shoe Lane. You will argue that the contract was not formed because of driving, yellow lines so unable to read signage on way in.

If on the main sign in the car park it says park within the white lines, you did not actually park over a white line and disadvantage another driver or cause an obstruction.  It has all the "hallmarks of a parking space" and if they did not want motorists parking there they should have made it clearer. 

Further to my earlier post above I have mentioned how Excel will argue that the contract was formed and how to argue their point. 

After entering the car park and parking in the space that was not obstructing or disadvantaging another driver you paid for the ticket at the machine by the sign which contains the terms and conditions, I have looked at the sign on my image of an Excel sign and I cannot read the text regarding parking in a marked bay. It shows a picture of a car parked correctly and another car parked across a parking bay (on a diagonal). It would be useful to know what that wording actually said. 

I doubt very much whether there is anything in the terms and conditions which says "don't park in the last two spaces by the railings" even though they may look like spaces. There is no marking on the spaces telling you not to park and a picture of a badly parked car on the Terms and Conditions board. Can't read what the wording says. 

The whole point of the white markings is to not disadvantage another driver and you have not done that.

Personally I think that they will struggle with this.

daniel_uk

Snakes, I totally agree. This is the argument my girlfriend will be making.

daniel_uk

Here is the sign wording. The spaces are so small that most cars aren't able to fully park within the lines of a bay. Just have to look at the parked cars on streetview to see what I mean. It's a standard template they use.

Coupon-mad

Google and read Martin Cutts' article 'Phoney fines and dodgy signs take drivers for a Ride'. 

Some useful stuff about Excel signs in there, and they've never improved them.

Snakes_Belly

daniel_uk said:

These are my Exhibits

Exhibit CD01 Google Map Ariel View 2020

Exhibit CD02 Google Map Street View 2020

Exhibit CD03 Personal Photo (19th Nov 2019)

CD04 Exhibit CD04 Photo taken by Excel the day the PCN was issued

I don't believe that a contract was formed upon entry to the car park. You paid for parking after you had parked your car and have met the terms and conditions of parking by parking within the white line. There is nothing about not parking in the spaces at the end. There has been no breach of terms and conditions even if a contract has been formed on entry.

If challenged by Excel's rep that there has been a breach ask where it says in the contract that you cannot park in those spaces. 

Then there is the issue of the add on £60.00.

Costs for unreasonable behaviour if there is a no show. They have made you do all this for the most trivial of reasons so bear this in mind.   

If you do get any costs for unreasonable behaviour, I suspect that car park would not be viable to Excel for 2020.

daniel_uk

It does say lines, suggesting there is more than one, they might point out on that

Snakes_Belly

daniel_uk said:

It does say lines, suggesting there is more than one, they might point out on that

But the image in their sign suggests parking over the white lines. The image is clearer than the text. Text is very small. 

There are many car parks where the end space only has one white line and are legitimate spaces. 

You can't always cover everything that is going to be said in a court hearing. I think that you have covered as many bases as you can.

If they have any sense they will pull out of this.

Do you know which judge you have been allocated? Is it the "hallmarks" judge? 
 
 

daniel_uk

District Judge Parker is the only name that came up on the Allocation to the small claims track. Not sure if he is the judge that will be allocated.