Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

silverwhistle said:

zeupater said:

 so if average economic activity is reduced by something akin to not being bothered to take just one journey in which £10 is spent every other month, then the anticipated budget is blown.

Gosh! I didn't realise only journeys by motorists resulted in extra spending!

The argument seems a bit similar to all the objections by traders against pedestrianisation which turns out beneficial to their trade.

Your argument that long distance travel will be tedious is equally misleading when the limit is being introduced for ressidential roads, unless of course you've been in the habit of using rat-runs and racing through villages.

You consider £20m per death too expensive, so I'd like to know what your price is for a road death, and perhaps also for a life-changing injury? I'm not sure I know what the equation should be, but objecting to the measures on the grounds of personal inconvenience is not a great look.

Point is there are a lot of things that would cost way less than £20m per life saved that they could do for road safety and don't because the usual criteria is that it is only worth doing if the cost is less than about £2m per life saved.  Why do this that costs £20m per life saved and not do other things that cost £2.5m per life saved.  Totally illogical.

silverwhistle

The £20m per life seems to be bandied about a lot but in CB terms there are other benefits, and I'm not even sure about the timescales involved, as such a change will see ongoing benefits.

In fact, having just gone on a little cursory internet search I can't find the figure at all. Plenty of experience from other countries which is positive. £92m a year in NHS savings let alone the reduced danger to individuals. Like the ULEZ arguments, and indeed on EVs as a whole there is a lot of misinformation, and plenty of government attempts to use it as a divisive issue.

michaels

silverwhistle said:

The £20m per life seems to be bandied about a lot but in CB terms there are other benefits, and I'm not even sure about the timescales involved, as such a change will see ongoing benefits.

In fact, having just gone on a little cursory internet search I can't find the figure at all. Plenty of experience from other countries which is positive. £92m a year in NHS savings let alone the reduced danger to individuals. Like the ULEZ arguments, and indeed on EVs as a whole there is a lot of misinformation, and plenty of government attempts to use it as a divisive issue.

Welsh govt report works out total cost of extra journey time.  HTH

Martyn1981

Hopefully this report is good news for all BEV's in the UK.

In the US a study by Recurrent on Tesla Model Y's, found that battery degradation seems to relate to the average temp of the state where the BEV is owned/used. Hotter states show higher degradation than cooler states. The comparison is roughly 95% SOH in cooler states, v's 92% in hotter ones, for 2020 year TMY's.

Given that BEV's seem to suffer the worst degradation in their first year, perhaps 2 or 3 percent, then less degradation in later years, and the UK climate being similar to the upper northern states in the study, this hopefully bodes well for UK BEV's.

Location, Location: It Matters Where Your Used EV Comes From

A new study from Recurrent shows that the average Range Score for Teslas owned and operated in cold and marine climate zones are higher than those for Teslas owned and operated in hot climate zones. These were average results, and the Range Score of an individual vehicle depends on how the car is cared for. Dealers who provide tools such as Recurrent’s Verified Reports give EV shoppers the information they need about how a battery is holding up. 








Folk may also be interested in a study Recurrent produced a month ago - Finding little to no difference in battery SoH for Tesla 3's and Y's when comparing cars almost entirely supercharged, to ones that are almost never supercharged. But, they do emphasise that Tesla's have good thermal managment for super charging, including pre-conditioning to get the battery to the ideal temp before arrival at the SC station. So these findings may (or may not) apply to other makes of BEV's.

Full Speed Ahead: EV Study Reveals Impacts of Fast Charging

We compared cars that fast charge at least 90% of the time to cars that fast charge less than 10% of the time. In other words, people who almost exclusively fast charge their car and people who very rarely fast charge. The results show no statistically significant difference in range degradation between Teslas that fast charge more than 90% of the time and those that fast charge less than 10% of the time. 

Martyn1981

Tricky one this. I want to praise Nissan for promising to only sell full electric cars in the EU by 2030. But at the same time, I want to say, well DUH.

However, the article does praise them, by pointing out that they don't seem to have fallen for the German/German car industry attempt to promote e-fuel's. So therefore appreciate that the move is 'major'?

Nissan: No New ICE Cars For Europe, All-EV By 2030

In a recent press release, Nissan announced a bold move for itss European business. Starting now, there will be no new combustion-powered vehicle models for the market, and by 2030, the company wants all new Nissans to be “100% electric.” Let’s take a quick look at the announcement and then discuss what it means.

Nissan’s 2030 EV Pledge

With its expertise in design, engineering, and manufacturing, along with a focus on electrification and crossovers, Nissan says moving to all EVs by 2030 will be a significant shift towards carbon neutrality.

“EV is the ultimate mobility solution. More than a million customers have already joined our journey and experienced the fun of a Nissan electric vehicle, and there is no turning back now,” said Makoto Uchida, Nissan President and CEO. “EVs powered by renewables are key to us achieving carbon neutrality, which is central to our Ambition 2030 vision. Nissan will make the switch to full electric by 2030 in Europe — we believe it is the right thing to do for our business, our customers and for the planet.”

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 said:

And in the US there's an event called 'Run on Less' which evaluates fuel efficiency for trucks. This has been running for a week already, and this year there are some Tesla semi trucks taking part (being monitored as they go about their work). Fun to see that on several days, the Tesla's have clocked up quite impressive stats, including driving over 800 miles in a single day whilst making 3 and 5 (different days) deliveries.

Hopefully there will be a good summary of the Run on Less event when it concludes for this year.

Still looking forward to seeing a detailed report on the Run on Less event, but on the last day, a Tesla Semi clocked up over 1,000 miles.

Certainly bodes well for a BEV truck future, especially as faster charging (akin to Tesla's Megacharger's) rolls out, reducing charging/waiting times.

Tesla Semi Logs Over 1,000 Miles On A Single Day In Independent Test

A PepsiCo Tesla Semi covered over 1,000 miles on a single work day, as recorded by the monitoring equipment installed as part of the North American Council for Freight Efficiency (NACFE) Run On Less program that aims to discover the real-world efficiency of zero-emissions work trucks.

During the 17th day of the program – the penultimate day of the program – the rig that’s labeled as “Tesla 3” logged a total of 1,076 miles and made just one delivery.

The data also shows that this particular rig spent 81.8 percent of the day driving, 11.1 percent of the time charging, and was inactive for 17 percent of the day. Furthermore, the majority of the trips (92.6 percent) were done at over 50 miles per hour.

thevilla

Martyn1981 said:

Martyn1981 said:

And in the US there's an event called 'Run on Less' which evaluates fuel efficiency for trucks. This has been running for a week already, and this year there are some Tesla semi trucks taking part (being monitored as they go about their work). Fun to see that on several days, the Tesla's have clocked up quite impressive stats, including driving over 800 miles in a single day whilst making 3 and 5 (different days) deliveries.

Hopefully there will be a good summary of the Run on Less event when it concludes for this year.

Still looking forward to seeing a detailed report on the Run on Less event, but on the last day, a Tesla Semi clocked up over 1,000 miles.

Certainly bodes well for a BEV truck future, especially as faster charging (akin to Tesla's Megacharger's) rolls out, reducing charging/waiting times.

Tesla Semi Logs Over 1,000 Miles On A Single Day In Independent Test

A PepsiCo Tesla Semi covered over 1,000 miles on a single work day, as recorded by the monitoring equipment installed as part of the North American Council for Freight Efficiency (NACFE) Run On Less program that aims to discover the real-world efficiency of zero-emissions work trucks.

During the 17th day of the program – the penultimate day of the program – the rig that’s labeled as “Tesla 3” logged a total of 1,076 miles and made just one delivery.

The data also shows that this particular rig spent 81.8 percent of the day driving, 11.1 percent of the time charging, and was inactive for 17 percent of the day. Furthermore, the majority of the trips (92.6 percent) were done at over 50 miles per hour.

How long before we see one on millionaire motorhomes 😂

Martyn1981

I know these were mentioned recently, but I thought the Q&A might be of interest.

Also, something popped out at me:

from the demonstration vehicles operating in Lothian we saw around 35-40% energy recuperation per day on average.

I think the rough estimate used for BEV and HFCV cars for average driving is about 15%-20%. Hence why some efficiency comparisons for leccy generated, to power at the wheel may vary. For example one may suggest around 75% BEV and 25% HFCV, but others may suggest 90% and 40%* (respectively), after adding back in regen. That may sound like a bit of a cheat, but v's an ICEV, it's probably fairer. [Also shows the benefits of regen to HEV's and PHEV's.]

[* Edit - Just to say, I'm not sure why the same %age is added to both, in that example 20% regen on 75% would add 15% to the BEV, but for the HFCV, I'd have thought +5% (not +15%), for the 20% regen, makes more sense. Could just be that the example I saw had that, as they do all differ a little bit. M.]

The BEV car estimate will represent a mixed bag of driving, whereas the bus figure is more likely to be weighted towards greater stop and go driving.

Silly point I appreciate, but just goes to show the benefits to some vehicles (rubbish trucks are possibly the best example) of electric drive and regen.

50 New Electric Buses Will Soon Be Operating In Edinburgh, Scotland

Lothian, a public transit provider in Edinburgh, Scotland, and the Lothians, has ordered 50 new electric Volvo BZL buses for its fleet. The double-deck buses will begin operating in 2024. They cost over £24 million and have zero direct emissions, so using them will help improve air quality. Each bus can transport over 70 passengers and has Wi-Fi and USB charging ports. Each one employs a 200 kW electric motor and five lithium-ion batteries totaling 470 kWh of electricity storage. The range is up to 300 kilometers per charge; regenerative braking technology can extend the range. A full charge requires about three to four hours and charging can be performed at night at the bus depot.

Lothian plans to continue investing in zero emissions buses and infrastructure spanning the next decade. The company has a plan to have net zero emissions for its whole fleet by 2035.

Is riding an electric bus a more pleasant experience because there are no exhaust fumes and no loud engine noise?

Yes, riding an electric bus can provide a more pleasant experience compared to riding a traditional diesel bus for both the drivers, passengers, and pedestrians alike, and enhance the quality of public transit services, to list some examples: Electric buses produce zero tailpipe emissions which improves air quality both inside and outside the bus.

Electric buses tend to provide a smoother and more comfortable ride due to the nature of electric propulsion systems. Electric buses typically have fewer vibrations compared to diesel buses.

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

I know these were mentioned recently, but I thought the Q&A might be of interest.

Also, something popped out at me:

from the demonstration vehicles operating in Lothian we saw around 35-40% energy recuperation per day on average.

I think the rough estimate used for BEV and HFCV cars for average driving is about 15%-20%. Hence why some efficiency comparisons for leccy generated, to power at the wheel may vary. For example one may suggest around 75% BEV and 25% HFCV, but others may suggest 90% and 40%* (respectively), after adding back in regen. That may sound like a bit of a cheat, but v's an ICEV, it's probably fairer. [Also shows the benefits of regen to HEV's and PHEV's.]

[* Edit - Just to say, I'm not sure why the same %age is added to both, in that example 20% regen on 75% would add 15% to the BEV, but for the HFCV, I'd have thought +5% (not +15%), for the 20% regen, makes more sense. Could just be that the example I saw had that, as they do all differ a little bit. M.]

The BEV car estimate will represent a mixed bag of driving, whereas the bus figure is more likely to be weighted towards greater stop and go driving.

Silly point I appreciate, but just goes to show the benefits to some vehicles (rubbish trucks are possibly the best example) of electric drive and regen.

50 New Electric Buses Will Soon Be Operating In Edinburgh, Scotland

Lothian, a public transit provider in Edinburgh, Scotland, and the Lothians, has ordered 50 new electric Volvo BZL buses for its fleet. The double-deck buses will begin operating in 2024. They cost over £24 million and have zero direct emissions, so using them will help improve air quality. Each bus can transport over 70 passengers and has Wi-Fi and USB charging ports. Each one employs a 200 kW electric motor and five lithium-ion batteries totaling 470 kWh of electricity storage. The range is up to 300 kilometers per charge; regenerative braking technology can extend the range. A full charge requires about three to four hours and charging can be performed at night at the bus depot.

Lothian plans to continue investing in zero emissions buses and infrastructure spanning the next decade. The company has a plan to have net zero emissions for its whole fleet by 2035.

Is riding an electric bus a more pleasant experience because there are no exhaust fumes and no loud engine noise?

Yes, riding an electric bus can provide a more pleasant experience compared to riding a traditional diesel bus for both the drivers, passengers, and pedestrians alike, and enhance the quality of public transit services, to list some examples: Electric buses produce zero tailpipe emissions which improves air quality both inside and outside the bus.

Electric buses tend to provide a smoother and more comfortable ride due to the nature of electric propulsion systems. Electric buses typically have fewer vibrations compared to diesel buses.

Excellent application for a BEV - stop/start driving in an urban environment. They should be mandatory on urban routes - particularly school buses. Things may have changed a bit since my day but outside our secondary school which had a large rural catchment area and was serviced by Lincolnshire Road Car buses there could be two or three buses queuing nose to tail at a time while pupils got on. The doors were at the front right behind the exhaust of the bus in front. 

At my primary school which( was about 100 yards from the village bus garage we used to wander down and get on the bus while it was in the garage, engine idling away. Bus stations can’t be healthy places. 

I wish the Government would focus on these applications rather than driving Toyota hybrids off the road. Out of interest the CO2 figure for the latest Toyota C-HR PHEV is just 19g/km. End the low BIK rates on PHEVs so they don’t get bought just to save tax and they will be bought by people who genuinely want to drive an electric car but like the security of a petrol engine just in case they need it. 

Edit: also ban all combustion engine cars from parking within 400m of a school or have traffic wardens handing out tickets to those who sit in their cars with their engines idling; in fact ticket anyone who is parked or waiting with their engine running anywhere.

silverwhistle

The problem is though that resource starved local councils can't pay the decent rates for such buses so that the school run, especially as I have observed it round here, has been done by the oldest, end of life buses. I believe one school district in the US has bought electric buses (those dedicated yellow ones we see in all the films) and have made them available for peak lopping when they are in the depot connected.

Happy with the engine idling rule though. I can understand first thing in the morning for defrosting, but the carers' cars sat opposite during the day, the local long wait at a level crossing etc., not much sympathy is due in those instances.