Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

michaels said:

Extraordinary month for BEVs in the UK and Tesla.
Nearly 40% with a plug. 13% market share for Tesla with top 2 sellers by miles.

Smmt page also has breakdown of top 10 EV's which is nice extra info.

Here’s the link to the SMMT page.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

No wonder Tesla Superchargers were a little overwhelmed at Christmas.

I am surprised how well the Leaf is hanging in there.

JKenH

Interesting comment on Motor Trader about the split between private and business/fleet buyers. I presume SalSac schemes fall under business sales - please correct me if anyone has a better understanding. If I am correct then this may have implications for used EV sales as they come off fleets/leases. It’s one thing running an EV if there are significant tax advantages - another if you can’t access these. We may need a used EV support scheme as the US has just introduced 

While private buyers accounted for more than half of all registrations, fleets and business buyers were responsible for the lion’s share of battery electric vehicles, accounting for two thirds (66.7%) of all BEV registrations and 74.7% of the volume gain in 2022.

https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/automotive-news/new-car-sales-2022-hit-30-year-low-due-supply-shortages-05-01-2023

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Interesting comment on Motor Trader about the split between private and business/fleet buyers. I presume SalSac schemes fall under business sales - please correct me if anyone has a better understanding. If I am correct then this may have implications for used EV sales as they come off fleets/leases. It’s one thing running an EV if there are significant tax advantages - another if you can’t access these. We may need a used EV support scheme as the US has just introduced 

I think I agree with your assessment that SalSac would be counted as business sales.

I don't agree that we would need a used EV support scheme. 
If the market in 2025, say, is flooded with a high volume of used EV's coming out of 2022 SS leases, then the value of used EV's falls and they become affordable for the common person that cannot access the tax advantages currently available.
The individual private buyer then chooses EV over ICE because the cost-to-enter differential has fallen away.
The SS driver has already signed the new lease for the next three years until 2028, so is quite happy.

The lease companies might suffer - they might even go bankrupt. 
I doubt the Government would see any reason to intervene as car lease companies do not have the same importance to anything as banks or steel manufacturing or whatever.  If all the car lease companies folded overnight, new businesses would be back to fill the gap very quickly.
The car lease companies are offering EVs on quite attractive lease rates at the moment based upon the current low depreciation (which is for a large part because of the odd supply-demand balance affecting all types of cars).
The car lease companies employ highly paid actuarial advisors to inform the setting of lease rates - if they cannot see that the current depreciation rates are an anomaly then they are not worth their salaries.

As we then move on towards 2028, the lease rates will rise for EV's to balance the purchase price with the depreciation now reflecting that used EV's are becoming plentiful. 
People (even though company SS schemes) won't be able to afford the new prices.
Manufacturers will offer discounts.
The world will keep on turning.

Martyn1981

Another diddy Chinese BEV, but as it's made by SAIC, the article speculates on the idea that perhaps it (or similar) could be rebadeged and sold under the MG brand in Europe, for maybe €15k.

Hopefully some small and cheap city cars will be avilable soon. This one is 500mm shorter than an E-Up, and with a 27kWh battery, it'll probably be good for ~150 miles.

How About An MG Clever Small EV For Europe? Would You Buy One?

Let’s just look at Europe for now, where small hatchbacks are quite popular. The SAIC Roewe Clever EV could just be the car to take Europe by storm if it was sent there in huge numbers and at a decent price. With the MG brand doing well, perhaps re-badging it as the MG Clever EV for Europe would give it a headstart riding on the renaissance of the MG brand. The SAIC Roewe Clever EV replaced the Roewe E50, whose production stopped in 2016. The Clever has a 37 kW (100Nm) motor and  a 27 kWh battery pack that gives a range of 260 km (NEDC). Hatchbacks are a really big deal in Europe. This small hatchback EV could do well. In terms of its dimensions, WattEV2Buy says the Clever is 3140 mm long, 1648 mm wide, and 1521 mm high. The wheelbase is 2000 mm and the luggage compartment of the Clever can accommodate 439 liters of storage.

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

Another diddy Chinese BEV, but as it's made by SAIC, the article speculates on the idea that perhaps it (or similar) could be rebadeged and sold under the MG brand in Europe, for maybe €15k.

Hopefully some small and cheap city cars will be avilable soon. This one is 500mm shorter than an E-Up, and with a 27kWh battery, it'll probably be good for ~150 miles.

How About An MG Clever Small EV For Europe? Would You Buy One?

Let’s just look at Europe for now, where small hatchbacks are quite popular. The SAIC Roewe Clever EV could just be the car to take Europe by storm if it was sent there in huge numbers and at a decent price. With the MG brand doing well, perhaps re-badging it as the MG Clever EV for Europe would give it a headstart riding on the renaissance of the MG brand. The SAIC Roewe Clever EV replaced the Roewe E50, whose production stopped in 2016. The Clever has a 37 kW (100Nm) motor and  a 27 kWh battery pack that gives a range of 260 km (NEDC). Hatchbacks are a really big deal in Europe. This small hatchback EV could do well. In terms of its dimensions, WattEV2Buy says the Clever is 3140 mm long, 1648 mm wide, and 1521 mm high. The wheelbase is 2000 mm and the luggage compartment of the Clever can accommodate 439 liters of storage.

Brilliant. Why has it taken so long for some car company to come up with one of these for the UK? Couldn’t Toyota have electrified the IQ?

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

 Couldn’t Toyota have electrified the IQ?

You forget that Toyota seem to still think the future is hydrogen fuel-cells.

michaels

My suspicion is that European car manufacturers have decided they will not be able to compete with Chinese manufacturers with small EVs hence basically pulling out of the small car market and sticking with small SUVs.

Grumpy_chap

michaels said:

My suspicion is that European car manufacturers have decided they will not be able to compete with Chinese manufacturers with small EVs hence basically pulling out of the small car market and sticking with small SUVs.

Surely, the challenge from the Chinese manufacturers now is no different to the challenge from the Japanese manufacturers in the 1980's?
Unless the legacy auto manufacturers will throw in the towel and just sell their factories to the new Chinese manufacturers.

There will always be an emerging market and the established markets have to adapt to survive.  Then the emerging market become part of the established market and the next emerging market will be along to fill the void and so the cycle continues.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

michaels said:

My suspicion is that European car manufacturers have decided they will not be able to compete with Chinese manufacturers with small EVs hence basically pulling out of the small car market and sticking with small SUVs.

Surely, the challenge from the Chinese manufacturers now is no different to the challenge from the Japanese manufacturers in the 1980's?
Unless the legacy auto manufacturers will throw in the towel and just sell their factories to the new Chinese manufacturers.

There will always be an emerging market and the established markets have to adapt to survive.  Then the emerging market become part of the established market and the next emerging market will be along to fill the void and so the cycle continues.

Yes, but!

The Chinese have most of the battery market tied up. And not just making batts, but also refining the materials. I have pondered if China could do what Japan did in the 80's, but I assume laws and rules on dumping will stop that - But legacy must be terrified given that the Chinese companies are going after market share, at the cost of margins at the moment.

There are loads of these super cheap BEV's in China, like the Wuling Mini EV, which was around $5k*, but making them road legal as 'cars' in Europe will push prices up. I think the E-Up was a decent competitor. But how European companies can compete against Chinese costs is the tough question.

What caught my attention in this article, was the link to MG (SAIC), so maybe an easier route to European sales, and knowledge of what is needed and wanted by buyers, and legislation?

*The Chinese EV subsidies have ended (for now), but they were paid directly to manufacturers, so it allowed for lower list prices. One company made the news, perhaps 5yrs ago, as it was earning a fortune on the cars it was making and 'selling' from the subsidies, but turned out they were stockpiling the cars under some dodgy lease excuse.

Martyn1981

Just like the Sweden, Germany has had a monster December, but again, just like Sweden, take it all with a big pinch of salt, due to end of year issues, and subsidy changes. But still, almost 1/3rd BEV's, result!

So, fantastic to see, but sadly, don't expect to see this in January.

EVs Take 55% Of The German Auto Market In December!

The tide has turned in the electrification of the German auto market, with plugin electric vehicles taking the majority of sales for the first time in December. Plugins took 55.4% of the month’s passenger auto sales, with full electrics taking a third (33.2%) and plugin hybrids taking over a fifth (22.2%). Plugless hybrids took 12.8%, leaving less than a third of sales for combustion-only autos (31.8%).

December’s combined plugin share of 55.4% is a new record, up from 35.7% year-on-year. The combined result comprises 33.2% full battery electrics (BEVs), and 22.3% plugin hybrids (PHEVs). This compares to share weightings of 21.3%, and 14.4%, in December 2021.

The full year 2022 share of plugins amounted to 31.4%, up from 26.0% in 2021. The 2022 weightings were 17.7% BEV (up from 13.6% YoY) and 13.7% PHEV (from 12.4%).