Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

Coastalwatch said:

Our four years of EV ownership has been little short of a revelation. No more smelly fumes, rattling tappets, oil and fuel filter changes, rusting exhaust pipes, leaking radiators, antifreeze checks, replacing clutches, big end failures, crankshaft regrinds, blown head head gaskets, leaking core plugs.

Is the EV charging infrastructure perfect, no, is it improving, certainly. Do I keep posting on FF forums about the wonders of EV's no, it would be insensitive and anyway I've got better things to do with my life.

Quite why anyone should subscribe to this forum and then post so negatively about it I really cannot begin to comprehend.

Wow, how old was your last ICE car? We haven’t encountered one of those problems with our 11 year old Picanto - just routine servicing and a couple of brake issues which were down to lack of use. 

I think we are all agreed that EVs are a huge step forward over current ICEs without having to dredge up issues that affected BL cars from the 70s. 

I love driving EVs. It didn’t take me long to realise I don’t like driving ICE cars and sold mine. I try and make my EV work but the charging network isn’t where it should be for the number of EVs on the road. It has got better in terms of usability with many more contactless chargers available but there are still nowhere near enough chargers on the main trunk roads. It needs to be improved if we are to achieve our aims of getting everyone into new EVs as a matter of their own choice rather than coercion. 

I am sorry you see my saying that as negativity. I want EVs to work for everyone and for everyone to want EVs because they are the right car for them. Sweeping the problems under the carpet doesn’t help any one. 

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Needing Chademo didn’t help on Saturday as of the two Gridserve charging stations at Cambridge services it was the CCS/Chademo one in use and the 2 x CCS station was free. (There were also several Ionity chargers which are solely CCS and didn’t appear on Zap-Map.) 

CCS / Chademoe / Tesla / Apple iCar / whatever plugs is bonkers.  There should either be a standardised type or an adaptor. 

It is not like different sized nozzles for petrol / diesel as the electricity is the same whatever plug you have.

In the case of high speed chargers, which might exceed input capacity for some vehicles, there should be a common plug and a down-rate process that caps the charger to the car's ability.

JKenH

Exiled_Tyke said:

orrery said:

Coastalwatch said:

Quite why anyone should subscribe to this forum and then post so negatively about it I really cannot begin to comprehend.

Well, sometimes we do need a dose of realism. My own daughter (currently driving my old ICE) will be looking for a new car in the next 6 months and I'll be loath to recommend a pure EV over a PHEV. She has a 5 year old daughter and does tend to set off almost anywhere in Britain at a whim. I suspect that when she sees the prices and the lead times, she'll go for a more modern petrol

I had a recent experience trying to use a GeniePoint charger with the Bonnet app and it took me three goes to get it to charge - I suspect that car had some timing interaction re locking the doors which upset it. Either way, this reliability will need to improve significantly for Joe Public to buy in.

Realism is good. Your example is a good one.

Some of us who've been around a while have become rather raw with the history of certain individuals who appeared to be more interested in debating why Green & Renewables shouldn't be supported rather than sharing news and exploring how practical issues might be solved.  These threads were initially set up and contributed to, by a number of people enthusiastic and dedicated to researching and sharing news of progress. In the past it has become clear that some sought to undermine these intentions. Some have been banned by the MSE moderators. Others have learnt to play by the rules.  

Some recent posts have caused concern that we may yet descend back into those times. Some of those posting, probably believe they are highlighting important issues or providing genuinely useful debate. Whilst other readers perceive them as trying to impede progress and thus create a feeling of 'we've been here before'.  As I said 'raw wounds' from previous experiences.    

So I guess those who were here from the beginning want a focus on progress and the future.  Issues, concerns, realism have a place. I think it's all about balance and recent discussions have highlighted that the balance doesn't fit with the  intentions of those who set these threads up and put so much effort into finding interesting, informative and relevant news. 

You say that you want to focus on progress but how do you progress if you are unable to recognise areas that require improvement? If everyone just agrees that because they haven’t had any negative charging experiences the charging network is ok then there is no incentive to improve it. It is only because of complaints and stories in papers like the Daily Mail that we have made progress moving from a network where each charge point operator had its own system of RF cards or apps to me where (I believe) all new charging stations now have a contactless facility.

I riled against the old system and how difficult it was to use on this thread and got the same reaction as I am getting now - I was being negative about electric cars. I wasn’t and I’m not now. I want them to work for everyone and that won’t happen until the charging network improves and there are enough chargers for everyone to be able to charge when they want/where they want as we can with ICE cars.

You refer to “certain individuals who appeared to be more interested in debating why Green & Renewables shouldn't be supported” whereas what I am arguing for is the exact opposite. I want better charging infrastructure to support BEVs.

You say realism is good. That’s what I offered in this discussion. Real world examples that we need improvement to the charging network. @orrery quotes an example of why a pure EV won’t work for his daughter. In what way is that realism different to mine?

You say it’s all about balance but in fact it’s the complete opposite. You don’t want balance at all you just want to see a certain point of view promulgated, repeated and applauded. Certain individuals may respond and be thanked for balance but the same point of view from someone else is considered disruptive.

I think though the comment that concerns me most is 

“In the past it has become clear that some sought to undermine these intentions. Some have been banned by the MSE moderators. Others have learnt to play by the rules.” That does sound like a line from some dystopian novel.

Exiled_Tyke

I'm not debating this. Merely explaining where a number of contributors are coming from.  For the record 'Balance' is in reference to Martyn's  intention for this thread when he set it up.  'Playing by the rules' refers to MSE rules on what is acceptable behaviour.  I refer to this merely because it illustrates how bad the situation became. 

silverwhistle

orrery said:

She has a 5 year old daughter and does tend to set off almost anywhere in Britain at a whim. I suspect that when she sees the prices and the lead times, she'll go for a more modern petrol

If she looks at the price of petrol she won't be setting off anywhere on a whim!

1961Nick

JKenH said:

I think though the comment that concerns me most is 

“In the past it has become clear that some sought to undermine these intentions. Some have been banned by the MSE moderators. Others have learnt to play by the rules.” That does sound like a line from some dystopian novel.

I guess it's a case of whether you want discussion or cheerleading.

Your report highlighting the charging issues with a BEV at the lower end of the battery capacity range could prevent someone else from making an expensive mistake rather than an informed decision. 

Solarchaser

Well I was off the forum for a couple of months for general busy life stuff.
I came back on but this thread was 300 replies on and I thought, nah I don't have that kind of time.
Looked again today and it was 785.


So I'm not gonna lie, I haven't read past the last two pages, but to be fair what I have read is the same stuff really from a year or so ago, and maybe even a year before that?

Before getting the wife's leaf we had a 8 year old car, I had to replace several engine parts, including all the valves, head gasket and a few other bits and bobs because the timing chain jumped, a lack of oil changes was the main issue.
So I'm 100% with Coastalwatch on this.
As someone "good with cars" I have been absolutely delighted to have done sweet FA to the leaf in over 3 years of ownership. 
The fact of not having to spend my weekends lying in the dirt changing out exhausts, brakes, radiators, clutches etc etc etc really can't be understated.
As Coastalwatch watch says, a revelation!!

Ken you stay in the part of the uk that's worst for chargers I believe,  or close to it.
You have complained about the public chargers many times, and probably rightly so, but the idea that the daily mail has made the charging network better.... sorry buddy, I think that's a straw you are clutching for there.
I do think it's a shame you have a crappy charging network around you, perhaps complaining to your MP is a valid route as make no mistake, its a political choice.

There's a good reason why the most populated places for charging are London and Scotland.

As I've said before I got a Tesla 3 through work over a year ago, and its been great, I've had very very few issues charging, and thats with me flying seat of the pants, and not preparing.
My worst one being turning up to a 50kw charger to find another EV just connecting to it, and me having to wait an hour on a slow charger to get 7kwh for my journey, my fault.

And second worst being waiting until the last day of my free Tesla miles with an almost flat battery so I could use the last free miles, and then finding out that American culture is the last day meaning the start of that day vs British culture bing the end of that day, so I lost 250 free miles 🙈

A few of my colleagues opted for hybrid models and are sorely regretting it now noting the government's remuneration rate for petrol and diesel  (as hybrids have garbage mileage on battery) leaves them between £20-30 out of pocket for business journeys in the week.

JKenH

Solarchaser said:

As I've said before I got a Tesla 3 through work over a year ago, and its been great, I've had very very few issues charging, and thats with me flying seat of the pants, and not preparing.
My worst one being turning up to a 50kw charger to find another EV just connecting to it, and me having to wait an hour on a slow charger to get 7kwh for my journey, my fault.

Maybe, like me, you need “some tips/lessons” from Mart😉

Solarchaser

I could give you plenty of tips, especially as you seem to have the same issues over the years Ken.😉

The best one is to plan your journey and check the chargers are live before journeying to them.

However that would be hypocritical of me, since I rarely do, as I rarely find any issues, even when I'm travelling around your neck of the woods.

I probably should have said that I'm a pure EV household since getting the wee leaf with 80 mile range 3 and a half years ago.

Pragmatically I'd say that in the first 6 months of leaf ownership I had to learn about the different apps and the different connectors and charge rates etc, but I, you, we... all took that on as early adopters. 

There was never going to be a continuation of the myriad apps, as many set up in the capitalist way of entrepreneurs setting up small companies with government grants etc to then sell to the bigger companies when they had become established,  its how the "free market" world works.

So in reality I find I use only pod point and chargeplace Scotland these days, having deleted most of the apps as I don't need them.

silverwhistle

1961Nick said:

I guess it's a case of whether you want discussion or cheerleading.

The trouble with the way he argues though is that it seems to come from an opinion that he needs to counter some sort of group think. His posts are very much based on his personal experiences, annual mileage (!), and opinions and if you listened to them you'd feel you needed an ICE for emergencies or use an ICE car for business.."How anyone using an electric car for business manages, I just don’t know." It's never "be aware of this and this, and consider this".

All of us here know there are issues to be addressed, and we'll give a newcomer pointers of what they need to consider, but this lone dissenting voice thing gets a bit tiresome. If I were that bothered I'd get my discourse analysis text books out and give chapter and verse, but I'm only slightly irritated and shan't..