Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

silverwhistle said:

1961Nick said:

I guess it's a case of whether you want discussion or cheerleading.

The trouble with the way he argues though is that it seems to come from an opinion that he needs to counter some sort of group think. His posts are very much based on his personal experiences, annual mileage (!), and opinions and if you listened to them you'd feel you needed an ICE for emergencies or use an ICE car for business.."How anyone using an electric car for business manages, I just don’t know." It's never "be aware of this and this, and consider this".

All of us here know there are issues to be addressed, and we'll give a newcomer pointers of what they need to consider, but this lone dissenting voice thing gets a bit tiresome. If I were that bothered I'd get my discourse analysis text books out and give chapter and verse, but I'm only slightly irritated and shan't..

Why is it necessary to be quite so rude, talking about someone in the third person? You may have your opinions of me but beyond those who you are trying to impress making personal attacks probably won’t reflect that well on you. Just argue the point under discussion if you are so convinced I am wrong about something. If you don’t want to continue the discussion, politely agree to disagree, but don’t make it personal. 

Edit; paragraph removed as it probably would just have continued the argument.

silverwhistle

Apologies, I should have addressed you directly but I was caught between two minds of more general and specific points. But I stand by the content.

Martyn1981

Exiled_Tyke said:

I'm not debating this. Merely explaining where a number of contributors are coming from.  For the record 'Balance' is in reference to Martyn's  intention for this thread when he set it up.  'Playing by the rules' refers to MSE rules on what is acceptable behaviour.  I refer to this merely because it illustrates how bad the situation became. 

Yes. Due to all of the disruption on the other threads at the time, I tried hard to make this thread safe by wording it carefully:

I thought a more specific thread/title might be useful for posting news on BEV's (and EV's in general), given that we have threads to discuss the minutia about EV ownership, but perhaps a thread just for the news might be useful.

Disclaimer from the start, BEV news can easily become Tesla heavy, so posts, especially mine, might appear a bit 'fanboi' but that's really just because they tend to dominate the news. However, there seems to be an ever growing amount of competition both in terms of BEV's and BEV news.

Have fun.

Unfortunately, like the other threads (Energy, Ethical Investing, etc) it is for a small minority, a way to spread negativity, often biased and unjustified. I think the recent discussion is an excellent example, where one person feels the charging network is extremely poor, and that households need to have an ICE, whilst all others (I think that's fair from the posted comments) feel that the charging network needs a lot of improvement but is not as bad as is being claimed (that position is then falsely described as 'sweeping the problems under the carpet'), and that not everyone needs to use the charging network, depending on driving needs, BEV range, BEV make.

I fail to understand how endlessly pushing a negative narrative, that flies in the face of the majority experience, is supposed to help anyone, and since a reasonable discussion is often not possible, and throws threads off course, the intention for this thread was to enjoy the transport revolution and share BEV news. That might even be described as a 'cheerleading thread' I suppose, and I'm not sure why that would be wrong on a Green & Ethical Board. But it's definitely not a discussion thread, and of course in no way prevents anyone from creating discussion threads on BEV's, there are many on the Motoring Forum.

2nd_time_buyer

Martyn1981 said:

Exiled_Tyke said:

I'm not debating this. Merely explaining where a number of contributors are coming from.  For the record 'Balance' is in reference to Martyn's  intention for this thread when he set it up.  'Playing by the rules' refers to MSE rules on what is acceptable behaviour.  I refer to this merely because it illustrates how bad the situation became. 

Yes. Due to all of the disruption on the other threads at the time, I tried hard to make this thread safe by wording it carefully:

I thought a more specific thread/title might be useful for posting news on BEV's (and EV's in general), given that we have threads to discuss the minutia about EV ownership, but perhaps a thread just for the news might be useful.

Disclaimer from the start, BEV news can easily become Tesla heavy, so posts, especially mine, might appear a bit 'fanboi' but that's really just because they tend to dominate the news. However, there seems to be an ever growing amount of competition both in terms of BEV's and BEV news.

Have fun.

Unfortunately, like the other threads (Energy, Ethical Investing, etc) it is for a small minority, a way to spread negativity, often biased and unjustified. I think the recent discussion is an excellent example, where one person feels the charging network is extremely poor, and that households need to have an ICE, whilst all others (I think that's fair from the posted comments) feel that the charging network needs a lot of improvement but is not as bad as is being claimed (that position is then falsely described as 'sweeping the problems under the carpet'), and that not everyone needs to use the charging network, depending on driving needs, BEV range, BEV make.

I fail to understand how endlessly pushing a negative narrative, that flies in the face of the majority experience, is supposed to help anyone, and since a reasonable discussion is often not possible, and throws threads off course, the intention for this thread was to enjoy the transport revolution and share BEV news. That might even be described as a 'cheerleading thread' I suppose, and I'm not sure why that would be wrong on a Green & Ethical Board. But it's definitely not a discussion thread, and of course in no way prevents anyone from creating discussion threads on BEV's, there are many on the Motoring Forum.

That seems to sum up my thoughts. 

One thing I would add is that contrary news is not unwelcome (to me). However, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect it to clear a higher bar i.e. not sourced from vested ICE interests or rehashing well-trodden debate.

However, If I am being honest, I quite like the occasional bit of beef.  

Martyn1981

2nd_time_buyer said:

Martyn1981 said:

Exiled_Tyke said:

I'm not debating this. Merely explaining where a number of contributors are coming from.  For the record 'Balance' is in reference to Martyn's  intention for this thread when he set it up.  'Playing by the rules' refers to MSE rules on what is acceptable behaviour.  I refer to this merely because it illustrates how bad the situation became. 

Yes. Due to all of the disruption on the other threads at the time, I tried hard to make this thread safe by wording it carefully:

I thought a more specific thread/title might be useful for posting news on BEV's (and EV's in general), given that we have threads to discuss the minutia about EV ownership, but perhaps a thread just for the news might be useful.

Disclaimer from the start, BEV news can easily become Tesla heavy, so posts, especially mine, might appear a bit 'fanboi' but that's really just because they tend to dominate the news. However, there seems to be an ever growing amount of competition both in terms of BEV's and BEV news.

Have fun.

Unfortunately, like the other threads (Energy, Ethical Investing, etc) it is for a small minority, a way to spread negativity, often biased and unjustified. I think the recent discussion is an excellent example, where one person feels the charging network is extremely poor, and that households need to have an ICE, whilst all others (I think that's fair from the posted comments) feel that the charging network needs a lot of improvement but is not as bad as is being claimed (that position is then falsely described as 'sweeping the problems under the carpet'), and that not everyone needs to use the charging network, depending on driving needs, BEV range, BEV make.

I fail to understand how endlessly pushing a negative narrative, that flies in the face of the majority experience, is supposed to help anyone, and since a reasonable discussion is often not possible, and throws threads off course, the intention for this thread was to enjoy the transport revolution and share BEV news. That might even be described as a 'cheerleading thread' I suppose, and I'm not sure why that would be wrong on a Green & Ethical Board. But it's definitely not a discussion thread, and of course in no way prevents anyone from creating discussion threads on BEV's, there are many on the Motoring Forum.

That seems to sum up my thoughts. 

One thing I would add is that contrary news is not unwelcome (to me). However, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect it to clear a higher bar i.e. not sourced from vested ICE interests or rehashing well-trodden debate.

However, If I am being honest, I quite like the occasional bit of beef.  

You're right, and of course there will always be some discussion and debate around the news of BEV developments and rollouts, much as folk take interest and ponder wind turbine developments, or storage suggestions on the green energy thread. 

1961Nick

The only way you’re going to stop discussion on a forum is to lock the thread to everything but the news feed or the member feeding the news.

Calling someone who swapped his Mercedes coupe for a Nissan Leaf a “dissenter” is a ridiculously high bar… certainly too high for me anyway. What some call “negativity” I see as pragmatism & I can’t see why that should be such a problem?

Can we get back to BEVs now?

Coastalwatch

Cheerleading thread works for me, especially as I should like to believe that we are all at least in the same Team!

I also like to think of it as a means of celebrating the arrival of a non polluting means of transport and heralding the era of a new age feeling blessed at still being here to witness it after imagining it to still be a decade or two into the future. For sure there is much still to resolve but surely that shouldn't stop us celebrating each and every step of progress made just as soon as it becomes publicly available.

For those who wish to mourn the past or promote the continued use of Fossil Fuels then I'm sure other threads are available.

 .

michaels

Coastalwatch said:

Cheerleading thread works for me, especially as I should like to believe that we are all at least in the same Team!

I also like to think of it as a means of celebrating the arrival of a non polluting means of transport and heralding the era of a new age feeling blessed at still being here to witness it after imagining it to still be a decade or two into the future. For sure there is much still to resolve but surely that shouldn't stop us celebrating each and every step of progress made just as soon as it becomes publicly available.

For those who wish to mourn the past or promote the continued use of Fossil Fuels then I'm sure other threads are available.

 .

I think group think can be as dangerous as FUD so all things being equal I am happy to see different opinions.

Solarchaser

1961Nick said:

The only way you’re going to stop discussion on a forum is to lock the thread to everything but the news feed or the member feeding the news.

Calling someone who swapped his Mercedes coupe for a Nissan Leaf a “dissenter” is a ridiculously high bar… certainly too high for me anyway. What some call “negativity” I see as pragmatism & I can’t see why that should be such a problem?

Can we get back to BEVs now?

I could get onboard with the idea of offering a different viewpoint, rather than dissenter,  but I think pragmatism is more than a little of a reach...

I think it's pretty clear this thread often falls into a bit of a fracas after a dose of specific negativity about a specific journey and then general sweeping statements from all (myself included)

Perhaps the pragmatic approach would be to have a BEV thread along the lines of "worst bev journeys" or similar. 
This would give those with poor experiences a chance to vent about them and informing those who seek information about which areas or journeys have particularly poor provision.

I really don't see how the BEV news thread should be the thread for this.

Perhaps even a BEV charging thread, though I have to say I'd have to post load of positive experiences for every negative experience on those.

I think it's obvious to most, and definitely someone who left this thread 5 months ago and came back to pretty much the same, that this circular argument helps no one and generates more than a little irritation all round.

Let's try and move forward peeps??

paul991

as  someone wo  just had to buy  a  new/ used ice  vehicle  i would of loved  to buy a bev but the initial layout was just too much and a  shortage of  good second  hand  vehicles on the market .i fail to understand  people say the  shortage of charge points because there seems to be loads round here several of them free