Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

orrery

Martyn1981 said:

 I'm not au fait with too many other makes and models, but I'm pretty sure there are quite a few others with similar ranges and charging speeds, certainly within the 40-50 min mark.

I suspect that there is a difference between theory and practice here. I'm seeing lots of posts on other forums where the expected charging speeds are very different to the theoretical figures from the charger and car manufacturers. I think that Tesla, who make both, may be making a better fist of it - other manufacturers, with less experience, are being over cautious.

I have an Enyaq iV80 that should charge at 120kW, but I've been on rapids that would charge the old Leaf (50kW max) faster.

thevilla

Having watched some of Bjorn Nyland's YouTube videos, it's clear charging is dependent upon several factors especially battery temperature and state of charge.  To compare charging speeds without some idea of those is meaningless and misleading.  Even the decision whether to navigate to a charger or not is important as some vehicles heat the batteries in anticipation.

CKhalvashi

Martyn1981 said:

CKhalvashi said:

Martyn1981 said:

Bit of UK news.

£200 Million Boost To Rollout Of Hundreds More Zero-Emission HGVs

The world’s largest fleet of zero emission HGVs will take to UK roads through plans to achieve cleaner air and greener jobs, while helping to keep costs down on consumer goods. Transport Minister Trudy Harrison revealed over £200 million of government funding will be injected into an extensive zero emission road freight demonstrator programme, at Logistics UK’s Future Logistics Conference this morning (12 May 2022).

Another prime example of how to test new technology for cars, as to achieve a full electric fleet this is an area where a 3-400km (say 350 for arguments sake) motorway range and 40-50 minute charge time will be essential, to then scale this technology down for cars.

That, with a £50k car will be the point where there's likely no looking back for BEV car sales for everyone IMO. As I can see at the moment, Tesla are currently closest to this with the TM3, but still only about half way.

Hiya. I may be misunderstanding that. Are you saying 350km (about 216 miles of range) and able to charge in 40-50 mins for cars, but that Tesla's 3 is only half way to that?

The reason I ask is because the long range can do 300 miles+, and charge to 80% (about 240 miles) in 20-30mins at a V3 supercharger, the standard range should do about 250 miles. I'm not au fait with too many other makes and models, but I'm pretty sure there are quite a few others with similar ranges and charging speeds, certainly within the 40-50 min mark.

No offence meant, I strongly suspect I'm combining the two paragraphs incorrectly and misunderstanding your conclusion.

Hi Martyn, you're not wrong, I wasn't clear. I often skeleton write a post and then fill it in, so occasionally that happens.

I missed 'then convert that to miles' (meaning 300-400 miles, effectively speed limit for 4-5 hours) after the last comma in the first paragraph (to get around long range driving without time regulations). I will give you that they're much closer than I thought (and still over the lower estimate in range), not around 50%, although I will note they're about £5k over the £50k (which of course will eventually need to come down, although that's not really an issue while BIK is as it is) for the basic LR model, which was why I had the Standard in mind.

The 400km for HGVs was naturally aimed at 90km/h (56-ish mph) for the 4h30 hours before legally mandated rest.

shinytop

CKhalvashi said:

Martyn1981 said:

Bit of UK news.

£200 Million Boost To Rollout Of Hundreds More Zero-Emission HGVs

The world’s largest fleet of zero emission HGVs will take to UK roads through plans to achieve cleaner air and greener jobs, while helping to keep costs down on consumer goods. Transport Minister Trudy Harrison revealed over £200 million of government funding will be injected into an extensive zero emission road freight demonstrator programme, at Logistics UK’s Future Logistics Conference this morning (12 May 2022).

Another prime example of how to test new technology for cars, as to achieve a full electric fleet this is an area where a 3-400km (say 350 for arguments sake) motorway range and 40-50 minute charge time will be essential, to then scale this technology down for cars.

That, with a £50k car will be the point where there's likely no looking back for BEV car sales for everyone IMO. As I can see at the moment, Tesla are currently closest to this with the TM3, but still only about half way.

£50k cars for everyone? Seriously? Say it out loud: Fifty. Thousand. Pounds. Then look around what most people are driving and where they are living and think again. 

Apologies if I've misunderstood what you meant.     

Martyn1981

shinytop said:

CKhalvashi said:

Martyn1981 said:

Bit of UK news.

£200 Million Boost To Rollout Of Hundreds More Zero-Emission HGVs

The world’s largest fleet of zero emission HGVs will take to UK roads through plans to achieve cleaner air and greener jobs, while helping to keep costs down on consumer goods. Transport Minister Trudy Harrison revealed over £200 million of government funding will be injected into an extensive zero emission road freight demonstrator programme, at Logistics UK’s Future Logistics Conference this morning (12 May 2022).

Another prime example of how to test new technology for cars, as to achieve a full electric fleet this is an area where a 3-400km (say 350 for arguments sake) motorway range and 40-50 minute charge time will be essential, to then scale this technology down for cars.

That, with a £50k car will be the point where there's likely no looking back for BEV car sales for everyone IMO. As I can see at the moment, Tesla are currently closest to this with the TM3, but still only about half way.

£50k cars for everyone? Seriously? Say it out loud: Fifty. Thousand. Pounds. Then look around what most people are driving and where they are living and think again. 

Apologies if I've misunderstood what you meant.     

Hiya, if you re-read it, he didn't say £50k cars for everyone. He suggested that the ability of a £50k BEV to do a certain task, would be the point where BEV's will become (eventually*) suitable for everyone. I think the start "That," referencing the task set in para 1, is reasonably clear, IMO.

* Hiya CKhalvashi, hope I've got that right. If so, then that's how I tend to think about things - there's a certain point, be it cost, scale, viability, comparable performance etc etc, where the ultimate success of a product/technology becomes virtually certain. I tend to compare this to the mens 100m sprint, if Usain Bolt was level or ahead at the 30m mark, where he's able to straighten up and stretch out his stride, he's very likely to win, if at the 50-70m mark he's ahead and accelerating away from the pack, then we now he's certain to win (outside of an extremely unusual event), even though he hasn't yet.

CKhalvashi

shinytop said:

CKhalvashi said:

Martyn1981 said:

Bit of UK news.

£200 Million Boost To Rollout Of Hundreds More Zero-Emission HGVs

The world’s largest fleet of zero emission HGVs will take to UK roads through plans to achieve cleaner air and greener jobs, while helping to keep costs down on consumer goods. Transport Minister Trudy Harrison revealed over £200 million of government funding will be injected into an extensive zero emission road freight demonstrator programme, at Logistics UK’s Future Logistics Conference this morning (12 May 2022).

Another prime example of how to test new technology for cars, as to achieve a full electric fleet this is an area where a 3-400km (say 350 for arguments sake) motorway range and 40-50 minute charge time will be essential, to then scale this technology down for cars.

That, with a £50k car will be the point where there's likely no looking back for BEV car sales for everyone IMO. As I can see at the moment, Tesla are currently closest to this with the TM3, but still only about half way.

£50k cars for everyone? Seriously? Say it out loud: Fifty. Thousand. Pounds. Then look around what most people are driving and where they are living and think again. 

Apologies if I've misunderstood what you meant.     

Those £50k cars are for high mileage users.

High mileage users are a lot more likely to drive company/lease/generally higher end cars. Those cars will be on the second hand market at some point, and won't be £50k.

That technology or range won't be required for everyone, so in no way is a £50k car for everyone part of the equation.

We actually own/operate a single HGV (currently a 26t rigid unit, but is E6). That definitely wasn't bought new (it spends half the year parked outside the office and is only used on our own contract work, but is cheaper overall than hiring as required). It does long distance work as required. That will not be replaced with a new EV until we can get a sleeper unit about 3-4 years old.

Martyn1981 said:

shinytop said:

CKhalvashi said:

Martyn1981 said:

Bit of UK news.

£200 Million Boost To Rollout Of Hundreds More Zero-Emission HGVs

The world’s largest fleet of zero emission HGVs will take to UK roads through plans to achieve cleaner air and greener jobs, while helping to keep costs down on consumer goods. Transport Minister Trudy Harrison revealed over £200 million of government funding will be injected into an extensive zero emission road freight demonstrator programme, at Logistics UK’s Future Logistics Conference this morning (12 May 2022).

Another prime example of how to test new technology for cars, as to achieve a full electric fleet this is an area where a 3-400km (say 350 for arguments sake) motorway range and 40-50 minute charge time will be essential, to then scale this technology down for cars.

That, with a £50k car will be the point where there's likely no looking back for BEV car sales for everyone IMO. As I can see at the moment, Tesla are currently closest to this with the TM3, but still only about half way.

£50k cars for everyone? Seriously? Say it out loud: Fifty. Thousand. Pounds. Then look around what most people are driving and where they are living and think again. 

Apologies if I've misunderstood what you meant.     

Hiya, if you re-read it, he didn't say £50k cars for everyone. He suggested that the ability of a £50k BEV to do a certain task, would be the point where BEV's will become (eventually*) suitable for everyone. I think the start "That," referencing the task set in para 1, is reasonably clear, IMO.

* Hiya CKhalvashi, hope I've got that right. If so, then that's how I tend to think about things - there's a certain point, be it cost, scale, viability, comparable performance etc etc, where the ultimate success of a product/technology becomes virtually certain. I tend to compare this to the mens 100m sprint, if Usain Bolt was level or ahead at the 30m mark, where he's able to straighten up and stretch out his stride, he's very likely to win, if at the 50-70m mark he's ahead and accelerating away from the pack, then we now he's certain to win (outside of an extremely unusual event), even though he hasn't yet.

I think we are thinking on the same lines here, but you've explained it better than I ever could have.

I need to stop posting just before going to work (zoom meeting at 4am this morning) as it's obvious my brain doesn't think clearly

orrery

CKhalvashi said:

Those £50k cars are for high mileage users....High mileage users are a lot more likely to drive company/lease/generally higher end cars. Those cars will be on the second hand market at some point, and won't be £50k.

That's what I say to SWMBO - we have an obligation to keep buying new cars to ensure that s/h market is well supplied. I'm not sure how long I can get away with it.

CKhalvashi

orrery said:

CKhalvashi said:

Those £50k cars are for high mileage users....High mileage users are a lot more likely to drive company/lease/generally higher end cars. Those cars will be on the second hand market at some point, and won't be £50k.

That's what I say to SWMBO - we have an obligation to keep buying new cars to ensure that s/h market is well supplied. I'm not sure how long I can get away with it.

The UK, Germany, Poland etc (these are the countries I have experience of) have quite healthy lease markets, leading to a decent supply of new vehicles at 3-4 years. There are also healthy deductions for electric company cars for tax purposes.

At the moment there's nothing to suggest this market shouldn't continue for the foreseeable future. I'm probably one of the few (proportionally) who has a new EV registered in my own name (largely due to my own usage patterns). A lot of private purchases are likely to be used.

JKenH

At the moment new cars are available on much cheaper finance than used cars. As most private buyers opt for finance and their budget is dictated by the monthly repayment terms it is currently very attractive to buy new, particularly when the tax advantages of salary sacrifice schemes are factored in. Unless cars depreciate significantly the additional finance costs will to a large extent swallow up any savings on the lower purchase price of used vehicles and I see ex fleet/finance cars (both EV and ICE) being difficult to shift in a couple of years time.

Edit: quote from Telegraph article

Santander Consumer Finance now charges 7.85pc interest on a second hand car, up from 7.69pc last year. This is expected to keep on increasing as interest rates rise further. Rates for new cars have fallen to 4.3pc from 4.7pc, although buyers must wait months, or even years, for the keys.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/second-hand-cars-now-26000-expensive-brand-new-models/

Grumpy_chap

I thought the £50k EV car with 350 miles range and fast charge was already here.
Am I mistaken?

Edit:. I am not sure that £50k is the purchase price benchmark for higher mileage driver, given the propensity of Superbs, 3- series, A4. 
I acknowledge overall cost may be lower for a £50k EV than £35k ICE.