Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

orrery

JKenH said:

So you are saying there are no emissions in producing the motive power? 

I agree with previous postings that this is just a waste of bandwidth.

Martyn1981

gefnew said:

But there is emissions from battery charging of the BEV with electricity generated by fossil fuels surely.

Of course there are, but the BEV doesn't add more emissions (to the local environment) when driven*. And don't call me Shirley.

Sadly it's very hard to have any reasonable debate/discussion if not done in good faith. It's always possible to 'accidentally' misunderstand comments and statements in order to disagree with them.

I think Orrery's comments are extremely clear, fair and reasonable, but if I wanted to simply be difficult and/or disrupt this thread I could reply like this .......

We still see the usual: the sun doesn't shine every day and the wind doesn't blow for 365 days every year, as though no-one involved in planning a renewable energy economy had spotted that, or that you can't guarantee that the electrons you use came from a wind farm, rather than the gas plant down the road..

...... soooooooooooo your saying the sun always shines, and the wind blows 365 days a year, and everyone involved in planning a renewable economy is perfect? Do you really think you get special green electrons? blah blah blah .......

10+yrs ago I used to write short comments. I was naive and assumed all folk were honest, G&E minded (on this board) and looking for a good faith discussion. Now I have to write boringly long responses, anticipating (at least trying to) and caveating all of the deliberate misinterpretations that might be made, simply to undermine any info I share.


*For example - Opportunity to disagree and mention tyre emissions, if a good faith discussion is not intended.

Martyn1981

Made me smile, it's kinda important and not important today, but obviously we will want chargers to at least be capable of higher speeds in the future. It's not just about the time it takes to charge 'your' car, but also the throughput of chargers / charging stations, making the experience better going forward.

Note - I assume from this statement that if the charger charges two cars at the same time, then the 360kW is shared, but 180kW+ ....... that's hardly slow.

The company shares a stunning announcement regarding the speed of this station: “The charging stations can simultaneously charge up to two vehicles with dynamic power distribution. With a maximum output of 360 kW, the Terra 360 is a future proof solution capable of fully charging an electric car in 15 minutes or less.”

World’s Fastest Electric Car Charger Installed In Norway

The first thing that caught my eye about an ad regarding this news was the “never stop moving” motto alongside the Terra 360, reportedly now the world’s fastest charging station. I’m accustomed to taking my time to charge. Most days, I have a litany of things to do while I charge at a level 2 charger, the most economical option for me. Yet, some days, I need the time. So, the second thing that caught my eye was the line, “The high-power charger for everyone.” I don’t drive a Tesla that allows for charging on the highly dependable network of Tesla fast chargers out there. So, when I do prefer a fast charge, depending on location and uptime, I can end up actually losing time trying to fast charge. I do hope this new ultrafast charger makes its way to the US.

For now, the first of these ultrafast chargers are installed in Norway. The first installations for ABB’s Terra 360 are in Norway’s second largest city, Bergen, and Norwegian ski resort Geilo. This world-record charging experience will be available to Norway’s 600,000+ EV drivers.

Grumpy_chap

Is there a reduction in charging efficiency as the charge rate increases?
At the very least, I would have thought the loss to heat would be greater.

Is there any impact on battery longevity?

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Is there a reduction in charging efficiency as the charge rate increases?
At the very least, I would have thought the loss to heat would be greater.

Is there any impact on battery longevity?

Yes, at least that's my understanding. That's why different BEV's and batts are limited in what rate they can charge at depending on their SoC, and also their battery temp.

Tesla reduced some charging speeds for their older Model S's, to maintain battery longevity. Nissan limits rapid charging due to temps, and I think it was Porsche, or was it Audi, that downgraded their charge speeds from around 350kW to reduce battery 'damage', but still really high, 300kW(ish).

Can also work the other way, if batts look good then speeds can be increased, some members of the UK Tesla Owners Group have reported charging speeds of just over 250kW* from V3 superchargers since Tesla said they were upping rates a tad.

For 250kW you really need a TM3/Y with less than 30% SoC, and to have pre-conditioned the battery as the car got to within about 10mins of arriving at the charger.

There's also the issue of cable size and weight for higher charge rates. Tesla got around that problem by using liquid cooled cables, which are actually smaller than their lower rate cables.

I think the really high speeds require 800V architecture BEV's, but I seem to recall a recent issue with some of these when charging at low speeds (like home 7kW AC supplies). If I recall correctly this was due to 'cheap' onboard chargers, not the batts themselves.

JKenH

InstaVolt responds to continued increases in wholesale energy costs

InstaVolt announces updated tariff of 57p per kWh across all rapid chargers effective from 4 May 2022

Not looking to start a discussion, just posting news.

https://instavolt.co.uk/instavolt-price-statement/

JKenH

http://www.smmt.co.uk/2022/05/april-ev-registrations-5/

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

Is there a reduction in charging efficiency as the charge rate increases?
At the very least, I would have thought the loss to heat would be greater.

Is there any impact on battery longevity?

If it is charging efficiency you were asking about have a look here at how charging efficiency varies at different charging rates for a Tesla.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6267900/ev-charging-losses

Edit: link may take you to the latest post you haven’t seen but it is page 1 post#2 you need.

JKenH

I find it frustrating that breakdowns aren’t given for the split between ICE and EV sales for models that appear in the SMMT top ten but I found this for the Mini. Yes it’s a press release and from January and relates to worldwide sales, not just UK but at least it gives an idea. 

The MINI models with electrified drive systems experienced a real boom in demand. Their sales figures climbed by 64.3 percent to 53 243 vehicles - around 18% of total worldwide sales in 2021. The winner of the year was the fully electric MINI Cooper SE (electricity consumption combined: 17.6 - 15.2 kWh/100 km according to WLTP, CO2 emissions combined: 0 g/km). The MINI Electric even managed to almost double its sales (plus 98.2 percent). It is now already the most popular model variant in the entire MINI product range.

34 851 units of the MINI Cooper SE were sold worldwide last year. This means that every third customer of a MINI 3-door opted for locally emission-free driving fun. In addition, 18 392 units of the MINI Cooper SE Countryman ALL4 were sold (fuel consumption combined: 2.0 - 1.7 l/100 km, electricity consumption combined: 14.0 - 13.1 kWh/100 km, CO2 emissions combined: 45 - 40 g/km according to WLTP). The plug-in hybrid model recorded a sales increase of 24.2 percent. Almost every fourth newly registered MINI Countryman hit the road with an electrified drivetrain.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0364395EN/sales-figures-for-the-mini-electric-almost-doubled-mini-brand-sales-up-3-3-percent-in-2021?language=en

Edit: it was more difficult to find information for the Corsa -e but from the links below we can see that the Corsa-e sold 5605 units in 2021 from a total of  40914 Corsas (13.7%). The comparative figures for the Mini Electric were 6615 from 31792 Minis. (20.8%)

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/678/electric-car-sales-uk-2022-evs-make-up-108-of-april-registrations

https://media.smmt.co.uk/december-2021-new-car-registrations/

Martyn1981

BEV trucks are growing in availability, but it's still early days, however a US study seems to show that the benefits are already huge, even based on just the models available today.

Charting The Course For Early Truck Electrification

Our analysis shows that many big trucks in the two states — approximately 65 percent of medium-duty trucks and 49 percent of heavy-duty trucks — are regularly driving short enough routes that they could be replaced with electric trucks that are on the market today.

The report also examines the amount of energy and charging infrastructure that these early electrifiable trucks need, in addition to emissions from the grid under various charging schedules. Regardless of when charging occurs, emissions per mile are less than half (and in some cases less than 10 percent) of those from diesel trucks. California and New York house approximately 14 percent of the truck population in the United States. In the next iteration of this project, the authors will perform a similar analysis for all 15 states that are following California’s lead.